1 00:00:07,349 --> 00:00:03,909 on this episode of skeptico 2 00:00:09,589 --> 00:00:07,359 a show about near-death experience 3 00:00:12,230 --> 00:00:09,599 one of the interesting things is that 4 00:00:13,430 --> 00:00:12,240 when people are told it's not your time 5 00:00:15,749 --> 00:00:13,440 you have 6 00:00:17,349 --> 00:00:15,759 things to do work to do 7 00:00:19,189 --> 00:00:17,359 it's interesting that they're not told 8 00:00:21,910 --> 00:00:19,199 what it is 9 00:00:25,509 --> 00:00:21,920 and a show about the clarity that can 10 00:00:26,390 --> 00:00:25,519 come from making tough decisions 11 00:00:28,870 --> 00:00:26,400 so 12 00:00:31,029 --> 00:00:28,880 what can i do for you i want out 13 00:00:32,470 --> 00:00:31,039 i'm done i want out when did you start 14 00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:32,480 feeling so sorry for yourself it's 15 00:00:36,549 --> 00:00:33,680 unbearable 16 00:00:37,910 --> 00:00:36,559 it's just money it's not wrong 17 00:00:39,250 --> 00:00:37,920 and it's certainly no different today 18 00:00:41,190 --> 00:00:39,260 than it's ever been 19 00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:41,200 [Music] 20 00:00:46,549 --> 00:00:43,360 stick around for my interview with 21 00:00:50,069 --> 00:00:46,559 near-death experience researcher author 22 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:50,079 and hedge fund manager and trader 23 00:00:58,790 --> 00:00:56,389 welcome to skeptico where we explore 24 00:01:01,029 --> 00:00:58,800 controversial science and spirituality 25 00:01:03,590 --> 00:01:01,039 with leading researchers thinkers and 26 00:01:05,750 --> 00:01:03,600 their critics i'm your host alex sacaris 27 00:01:09,030 --> 00:01:05,760 and today we welcome dj kadeshian to 28 00:01:12,230 --> 00:01:09,040 skeptico to talk about his new book the 29 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:12,240 cross over experience a book he wrote 30 00:01:17,830 --> 00:01:14,560 with two very 31 00:01:20,469 --> 00:01:17,840 highly regarded at least in my opinion 32 00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:20,479 near-death experience researchers dr pen 33 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:23,600 van lammel and dr gregory shushan 34 00:01:27,190 --> 00:01:26,320 both of whom you've heard on this show 35 00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:27,200 and 36 00:01:33,270 --> 00:01:29,439 they're really terrific first 37 00:01:35,190 --> 00:01:33,280 let's give a little bit of a bio for dj 38 00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:35,200 award-winning documentary filmmaker 39 00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:36,960 best-selling author 40 00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:39,600 quantum economist 41 00:01:44,389 --> 00:01:42,000 i think that's code speak for 42 00:01:46,789 --> 00:01:44,399 hedge fund manager and trader 43 00:01:48,429 --> 00:01:46,799 trying to say a bat way 44 00:01:51,670 --> 00:01:48,439 instead of hedge fund that has bad 45 00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:51,680 conversations now it does it does but it 46 00:01:56,709 --> 00:01:54,880 plays so beautifully into this terrific 47 00:02:00,389 --> 00:01:56,719 book that you've written dj that i want 48 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:00,399 to push it out there in front hedge fund 49 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:02,240 manager 50 00:02:08,949 --> 00:02:06,000 quantum economist cracking the code of 51 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:08,959 the scientific wrinkle there's a lot 52 00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:11,280 there's a lot to unpack there yeah kind 53 00:02:14,550 --> 00:02:13,040 of scary i don't know how it all came 54 00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:14,560 together but 55 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:17,120 as much as it is yeah that's a little 56 00:02:22,710 --> 00:02:18,480 bit of me 57 00:02:24,949 --> 00:02:22,720 so dj's films have aired on pbs gaia tv 58 00:02:25,990 --> 00:02:24,959 discovery channel hallmark as well as 59 00:02:28,869 --> 00:02:26,000 well as 60 00:02:31,589 --> 00:02:28,879 being in over 120 film festivals he's a 61 00:02:34,550 --> 00:02:31,599 cornell man and a member of the 62 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:34,560 director's guild and it's great to have 63 00:02:39,110 --> 00:02:36,800 you here dj thanks for joining me great 64 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:39,120 to be here i've enjoyed watching 65 00:02:43,270 --> 00:02:41,040 and listening to your podcast as well 66 00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:43,280 and in fact i stumbled on your podcast 67 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:44,640 with uh 68 00:02:48,150 --> 00:02:45,440 pym 69 00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:48,160 uh boy about a year ago and i've read a 70 00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:50,400 lot that's on your site and 71 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:53,840 um so it's like very nice to be here 72 00:02:58,710 --> 00:02:55,120 well terrific 73 00:03:01,190 --> 00:02:58,720 you just mentioned pim von lamo and dr 74 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:01,200 gregory shushan is the other 75 00:03:04,949 --> 00:03:02,800 near-death experience researcher that a 76 00:03:07,190 --> 00:03:04,959 lot of people will know they're featured 77 00:03:09,670 --> 00:03:07,200 prominently in this book we're going to 78 00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:09,680 talk about the book it's really quite 79 00:03:13,990 --> 00:03:12,239 unique and i think will be highly useful 80 00:03:15,910 --> 00:03:14,000 for a lot of people the way that you've 81 00:03:17,750 --> 00:03:15,920 put this together 82 00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:17,760 but first 83 00:03:21,509 --> 00:03:19,920 maybe talk about who these guys are 84 00:03:23,030 --> 00:03:21,519 let's introduce them a little bit 85 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:23,040 because they are 86 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:25,360 along for the ride on this book and are 87 00:03:30,309 --> 00:03:27,440 a prominent part of it 88 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:30,319 well uh dr van laamel was 89 00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:33,760 is was a practicing cardiologist in the 90 00:03:37,589 --> 00:03:34,959 netherlands 91 00:03:39,670 --> 00:03:37,599 and he was he kind of stumbled on the 92 00:03:42,470 --> 00:03:39,680 near-death experience right around the 93 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:42,480 same time as uh raymond moody did 94 00:03:46,550 --> 00:03:44,400 so they were kind of both in two 95 00:03:48,949 --> 00:03:46,560 separate parts of the world but 96 00:03:50,710 --> 00:03:48,959 as often happens you know 97 00:03:53,030 --> 00:03:50,720 these things kind of kick up at the same 98 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:53,040 time and but let's tell the story 99 00:03:56,149 --> 00:03:54,720 because it's such a great story because 100 00:03:58,390 --> 00:03:56,159 it's interesting you draw the connection 101 00:04:00,789 --> 00:03:58,400 with raymond moody because they really 102 00:04:02,149 --> 00:04:00,799 stumble upon it in a completely 103 00:04:04,070 --> 00:04:02,159 different way 104 00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:04,080 i mean raymond moody a lot of people 105 00:04:08,470 --> 00:04:06,000 don't know but he's with elizabeth 106 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:08,480 kubler-ross is how he's numbers on it 107 00:04:12,309 --> 00:04:10,159 she's really the one who kind of 108 00:04:14,309 --> 00:04:12,319 discovers it and she says raymond you 109 00:04:16,390 --> 00:04:14,319 better come over and look at this 110 00:04:19,030 --> 00:04:16,400 pinvallamo 111 00:04:22,469 --> 00:04:19,040 stumbles on in a very experienced 112 00:04:25,909 --> 00:04:22,479 indirect experiential way to tell that 113 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:25,919 story well he just he had a patient that 114 00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:28,240 had come out of one of his surgeries and 115 00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:30,240 told him you know essentially that he 116 00:04:34,390 --> 00:04:32,240 saw things that were happening in the 117 00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:34,400 operating room and uh 118 00:04:37,350 --> 00:04:35,360 and 119 00:04:39,909 --> 00:04:37,360 him was pretty much astonished because 120 00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:39,919 it was accurate and we've heard this now 121 00:04:43,030 --> 00:04:41,840 i mean this has been recorded often but 122 00:04:45,189 --> 00:04:43,040 back then 123 00:04:46,310 --> 00:04:45,199 it wasn't as common and at the time 124 00:04:47,590 --> 00:04:46,320 really this is when we were first 125 00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:47,600 starting to see 126 00:04:52,870 --> 00:04:49,199 having the ability to bring 127 00:04:54,629 --> 00:04:52,880 people back from cardiac arrest prior to 128 00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:54,639 the resuscitation techniques you really 129 00:04:58,310 --> 00:04:56,400 couldn't do that and 130 00:04:59,749 --> 00:04:58,320 uh and now they were starting to bring 131 00:05:01,430 --> 00:04:59,759 people back so 132 00:05:03,749 --> 00:05:01,440 this started to happen and he happened 133 00:05:05,029 --> 00:05:03,759 to experience one firsthand 134 00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:05,039 and he was 135 00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:07,600 blown away and so he started asking 136 00:05:12,629 --> 00:05:10,880 around to other doctors cardiologists if 137 00:05:15,189 --> 00:05:12,639 they had had that type of experience 138 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:15,199 with with some of their patients and 139 00:05:19,510 --> 00:05:16,960 they said yes we did but they had all 140 00:05:22,070 --> 00:05:19,520 written it off or like this campy but so 141 00:05:23,830 --> 00:05:22,080 he kept asking around and starting to 142 00:05:25,830 --> 00:05:23,840 put the pieces of the puzzle together 143 00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:25,840 and see that there was uh 144 00:05:30,870 --> 00:05:28,639 uh very um there was great consistency 145 00:05:32,710 --> 00:05:30,880 in in what people were saying and but 146 00:05:34,469 --> 00:05:32,720 most weren't taking it seriously but he 147 00:05:36,550 --> 00:05:34,479 had started going around 148 00:05:39,189 --> 00:05:36,560 and kind of you know kicking the tires 149 00:05:40,629 --> 00:05:39,199 and and that's when he really started to 150 00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:40,639 say you know something is definitely 151 00:05:44,629 --> 00:05:42,720 going on here and that's really when he 152 00:05:46,710 --> 00:05:44,639 started to dive into the work 153 00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:46,720 and ultimately leading to what i think 154 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:48,720 is probably well i would consider it the 155 00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:50,000 most important 156 00:05:54,070 --> 00:05:52,240 study research study done on the subject 157 00:05:55,749 --> 00:05:54,080 a prospective study was published in the 158 00:05:58,870 --> 00:05:55,759 lancet journal 159 00:06:00,390 --> 00:05:58,880 really really thorough and um 160 00:06:02,390 --> 00:06:00,400 just really well researched and 161 00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:02,400 articulated and and his book 162 00:06:06,790 --> 00:06:04,800 consciousness beyond life was when i 163 00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:06,800 really got into this for the second time 164 00:06:10,309 --> 00:06:08,160 because i initially 165 00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:10,319 um kind of came onto the subject of the 166 00:06:14,469 --> 00:06:12,160 near death experience you know well over 167 00:06:15,510 --> 00:06:14,479 20 years ago when i was kind of going 168 00:06:16,629 --> 00:06:15,520 through a 169 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:16,639 um 170 00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:18,560 you know spiritual quest that took me 171 00:06:24,710 --> 00:06:22,160 into uh you know death and dying and and 172 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,720 these two uh sorts of things book of the 173 00:06:27,749 --> 00:06:26,479 dead and somehow i stumbled on raymond 174 00:06:30,550 --> 00:06:27,759 moody's book 175 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:30,560 um and not to despair dream of moody's 176 00:06:35,590 --> 00:06:32,960 book which is mind-blowing but i really 177 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:35,600 i connected more with uh dr van lummel's 178 00:06:38,469 --> 00:06:37,680 book um because he laid it out 179 00:06:39,830 --> 00:06:38,479 um 180 00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:39,840 when he brought in really his 181 00:06:45,110 --> 00:06:42,560 interpretation of quantum mechanics 182 00:06:47,270 --> 00:06:45,120 which helped tie everything together you 183 00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:47,280 know the testimonials uh 184 00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:49,840 that he had gathered individually his 185 00:06:53,830 --> 00:06:51,759 research uh study 186 00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:53,840 and then kind of tying the pieces 187 00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:56,000 together with quantum mechanics it was 188 00:07:01,270 --> 00:06:58,240 like you know it just you could really 189 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:01,280 see kind of all these patterns 190 00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:03,360 for me they just started to distill and 191 00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:05,280 so you know my background in 192 00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:07,120 uh quantum mechanics 193 00:07:11,189 --> 00:07:09,280 in hedge fund management is to really 194 00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:11,199 look at and crunch you know massive 195 00:07:15,749 --> 00:07:13,520 amounts of data and looking for patterns 196 00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:15,759 and rhythms and waves and really that's 197 00:07:20,309 --> 00:07:17,759 how the markets work i mean ultimately 198 00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:20,319 it's it's actually very interesting and 199 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:22,319 in a way it's much uh 200 00:07:26,230 --> 00:07:24,880 simpler than it's discussed oftentimes 201 00:07:27,510 --> 00:07:26,240 on cnbc 202 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:27,520 and it's all it's all really a 203 00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:30,400 reflection of human emotion and waves 204 00:07:33,909 --> 00:07:33,120 patterns and energy and so you start to 205 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:33,919 see 206 00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:35,840 these things come together and and 207 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:38,160 pimvelamo was seeing them on the ground 208 00:07:42,629 --> 00:07:40,400 in real time you know these out of body 209 00:07:44,390 --> 00:07:42,639 experience and i think the way he 210 00:07:46,869 --> 00:07:44,400 uh really covers 211 00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:46,879 non-local consciousness um 212 00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:48,960 that that's really you know 213 00:07:52,390 --> 00:07:50,240 extremely 214 00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:52,400 it just makes a lot of sense there's so 215 00:07:55,990 --> 00:07:53,840 much uh 216 00:07:58,150 --> 00:07:56,000 data that backs this up and i went 217 00:07:59,749 --> 00:07:58,160 through thousands of testimonials and 218 00:08:02,390 --> 00:07:59,759 the patterns are 219 00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:02,400 incredibly consistent so anyway that's 220 00:08:08,390 --> 00:08:04,879 that's where i kind of really fell in 221 00:08:10,469 --> 00:08:08,400 love with you know pims work and also 222 00:08:12,629 --> 00:08:10,479 really listening to his lectures um the 223 00:08:14,869 --> 00:08:12,639 one the podcast that you did with him 224 00:08:17,189 --> 00:08:14,879 and uh he's done he's done obviously a 225 00:08:19,270 --> 00:08:17,199 lot of uh interviews you'll find on on 226 00:08:20,710 --> 00:08:19,280 youtube and they weren't these things 227 00:08:22,469 --> 00:08:20,720 weren't around when i was they were 228 00:08:24,230 --> 00:08:22,479 happening when i first started looking 229 00:08:25,749 --> 00:08:24,240 at the near death experience but i 230 00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:25,759 really didn't have access to them other 231 00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:27,280 than a few books 232 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:29,440 so when you start to watch these i watch 233 00:08:34,709 --> 00:08:32,000 probably as much of these types of 234 00:08:37,430 --> 00:08:34,719 you know his types of interviews 235 00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:37,440 um from the research quantum 236 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:38,800 standpoint 237 00:08:43,509 --> 00:08:40,800 as i did the actual testimonials which 238 00:08:46,389 --> 00:08:43,519 also blew me away but uh so anyway 239 00:08:48,150 --> 00:08:46,399 that's kim's work which uh which really 240 00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:48,160 influenced me a lot so it was just 241 00:08:51,350 --> 00:08:49,680 incredible really 242 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:51,360 great to have him as part of the book 243 00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:52,880 that meant a lot 244 00:08:55,990 --> 00:08:54,640 so let's pause there for a second 245 00:08:57,350 --> 00:08:56,000 because 246 00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:57,360 you know i don't know how much you want 247 00:09:01,509 --> 00:08:59,279 to go into this but you do touch on it a 248 00:09:02,949 --> 00:09:01,519 couple times in the book so i think it's 249 00:09:04,870 --> 00:09:02,959 fair to bring it up 250 00:09:07,269 --> 00:09:04,880 i mean part of your 251 00:09:08,949 --> 00:09:07,279 personal journey is 252 00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:08,959 kind of death and dying in kind of a 253 00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:12,320 tragic way and you know personal way and 254 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:14,399 that plays into that so how is that part 255 00:09:16,630 --> 00:09:15,440 of your 256 00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:16,640 spiritual 257 00:09:20,070 --> 00:09:18,480 journey that you do allude to in the 258 00:09:22,790 --> 00:09:20,080 book 259 00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:22,800 for me personally you know i grew up in 260 00:09:28,070 --> 00:09:25,040 in i guess you would call it a kind of a 261 00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:28,080 war zone meant a psychological war zone 262 00:09:32,389 --> 00:09:29,920 you know kind of physical abuse kind of 263 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:32,399 stuff where you you really feel like you 264 00:09:35,190 --> 00:09:34,560 know in these situations when you you 265 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:35,200 know 266 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:38,080 when i was very young like like you're 267 00:09:43,110 --> 00:09:40,800 going to die you feel like you know you 268 00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:43,120 you are in a place where you could die 269 00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:44,640 at any time so 270 00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:46,560 you know i had a lot of fear of 271 00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:48,720 death when i was you know i didn't know 272 00:09:53,670 --> 00:09:51,519 that growing up but as i became older 273 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:53,680 you know serious ptsd 274 00:09:57,509 --> 00:09:55,920 and and you know i i sensed this real 275 00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:57,519 fear and i think that's why i was drawn 276 00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:00,640 to you know initially joseph campbell i 277 00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:03,360 i stumbled on his uh interview with bill 278 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:05,839 moyers on pbs i don't know how i found 279 00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:07,200 it but 280 00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:08,720 really i started listening to that and 281 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:11,279 it was like my mind exploded and that 282 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,640 for me started the whole kind of 283 00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:14,240 spiritual quest 284 00:10:16,470 --> 00:10:15,200 and 285 00:10:18,710 --> 00:10:16,480 then uh 286 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:18,720 you know he deals so much with you know 287 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:21,680 mythology mythic imagery he was he was a 288 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:23,680 contemporary and friend with carl jung 289 00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:26,160 and you know his whole world and and 290 00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:27,200 then i got 291 00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:30,240 stumbled on uh houston smith's interview 292 00:10:33,509 --> 00:10:32,079 with uh he also did a series with bill 293 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:33,519 moyers called 294 00:10:38,069 --> 00:10:36,560 wisdom of faith and he spent 295 00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:38,079 something like five years in each of the 296 00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:40,079 world's major religions and that really 297 00:10:43,269 --> 00:10:41,600 blew me away so kind of pulled 298 00:10:44,949 --> 00:10:43,279 everything together 299 00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:44,959 and 300 00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:46,880 once that happened i had my own 301 00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:48,880 investment firm and 302 00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:51,360 once that happened i i said you know i 303 00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:53,760 don't know that i can do this really 304 00:10:58,389 --> 00:10:55,920 anymore full-time for sure 305 00:10:59,350 --> 00:10:58,399 so it was around that time uh first i 306 00:11:01,269 --> 00:10:59,360 said you know what i'm going to try and 307 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:01,279 go to divinity school kind of on the 308 00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,760 side and um 309 00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:06,000 so i started going to um yale divinity 310 00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:07,680 school which is not that far from where 311 00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:09,279 i was living and 312 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:12,320 and it was it was not a good time it was 313 00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:14,000 not the kind of environment i was 314 00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:15,760 looking for it was very not very 315 00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:17,920 spiritual which is you know i i thought 316 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:20,160 it would be you know very intellectually 317 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:22,800 stimulating but also spiritually and it 318 00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:25,600 wasn't that at all um and i remember i 319 00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:27,120 had my uh 320 00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:29,839 i had a report due and i hadn't i'm i'm 321 00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:32,240 not good in school i was never a good 322 00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:33,920 student but i remember being down in 323 00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,320 miami and and i'm like oh my god i have 324 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,440 to do a book report and i was so freaked 325 00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:41,440 out by that concept that i immediately 326 00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:44,079 dropped out that was it so that was my 327 00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:46,560 religious career um i always told my 328 00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:48,880 hand my wife i was in it for the hat you 329 00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,959 know i wanted the hat and scepter or 330 00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:53,040 whatever the pope carries but of course 331 00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,920 it was it was not a catholic school so 332 00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,440 that was never going to happen anyway so 333 00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,519 that was that 334 00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:01,920 but so that kind of drove me uh you know 335 00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,320 of course then i i i found i i became 336 00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,480 very interested in buddhism for noble 337 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,920 truths um 338 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:10,240 the whole concept of you know dying you 339 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:13,760 know the ego death and so on and just 340 00:12:19,670 --> 00:12:17,040 you know it really um resonated with me 341 00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:19,680 in a in a way because that had always 342 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,000 been floating the concept but for me it 343 00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,720 was much more literal death 344 00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:26,959 not knowing that you know it's all 345 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:29,519 spiritual and it's it's all 346 00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:33,120 kind of this in a sense all the same 347 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:34,560 we just maybe 348 00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,880 experience it a little differently if 349 00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,480 depending on where we are 350 00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:40,639 on our journey or you know how open we 351 00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:42,800 are to these kinds of things 352 00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:44,079 and 353 00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,079 also stumbled on the work of raymond 354 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,399 moody i'm not sure how that got mixed up 355 00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:52,480 in all of it i found it 356 00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,079 fascinating but 357 00:12:58,150 --> 00:12:56,639 at the time there wasn't a lot of 358 00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,160 research 359 00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:59,920 where i could you know to me it was like 360 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,120 wow this is 361 00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,360 really amazing but 362 00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,839 and it sounds too good to be true in a 363 00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:07,120 way 364 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,639 and so i'm i'm a skeptic skeptico and uh 365 00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:11,760 so i'm 366 00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:13,600 you know i said fine but i need to see 367 00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,040 you know more research and it just 368 00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:17,760 didn't exist in a way that i could find 369 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:19,600 it and there was there was no real 370 00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:21,680 youtube at that point this is like 25 371 00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:22,959 years ago 372 00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,320 um so i moved off and on from that and 373 00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,240 uh started getting into film work where 374 00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:29,680 i just said you know what instead of 375 00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:32,160 going to divinity school and reading 376 00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:33,680 books i'm not really interested in i 377 00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:35,920 said i'm going to start interviewing 378 00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,360 people that 379 00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:39,199 i'm i've read their books and i'm very 380 00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:40,880 interested in i want to go to the source 381 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:43,199 and ask them questions you know so 382 00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:44,720 something like this where it's 383 00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,360 interactive and you know you just i i 384 00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,720 learn much more 385 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,959 that way having conversations and 386 00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:52,800 building things like building a film 387 00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:55,120 building program it's having something 388 00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,199 at the end of the day that 389 00:14:00,790 --> 00:13:59,680 forces you to form an opinion 390 00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,800 and uh 391 00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:02,399 so i started interviewing 392 00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,320 well uh houston smith was in my first 393 00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,000 film which was which was 394 00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,720 a real treat and uh anyway a number of 395 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,880 of these people um 396 00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,560 but i i 397 00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:14,240 you know and then i had somehow i 398 00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:16,720 stumbled on the work of terence mckenna 399 00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,600 that led me into the whole psychedelic 400 00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:21,519 kind of movement and 401 00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:24,399 so i kind of traveled a whole lot 402 00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,880 of you know maybe on the the fringe 403 00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:29,440 crossing over all different types of 404 00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,959 you know um 405 00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,360 realms and realities and 406 00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:36,160 and along the way i just kind of started 407 00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,120 i became i i articulated them i guess in 408 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:41,600 some of the film work i did where my 409 00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:42,480 films 410 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,199 are very experiential 411 00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:47,120 where i add a lot of music and imagery 412 00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:49,600 to what i'm doing i have a very 413 00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,720 non-linear way of thinking um massive 414 00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:54,959 dyslexia and 415 00:14:59,670 --> 00:14:56,959 and i think one of the reasons i had 416 00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,680 success in finances especially trade 417 00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,600 creating programs it's very non-linear 418 00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:03,680 and that's how my brain works 419 00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,079 like like i was uh late on getting on 420 00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:08,720 this call i can't remember what zip code 421 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,360 i'm and i like i have 422 00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:13,120 trouble you know 423 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:15,279 you know i lose my it's just it's crazy 424 00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:17,920 the way my life works but i i do have 425 00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:18,720 some 426 00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:21,519 uh ability to do kind of out of the box 427 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,440 things just because my 428 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,760 brain is somewhat shattered maybe in a 429 00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:26,880 good way 430 00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:29,040 dj again and you don't have to answer 431 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:29,920 this but 432 00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:33,360 and uh you and your wife lost your son 433 00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,399 yeah yeah that's um that was almost two 434 00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,880 years ago about a year and a half ago 435 00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:40,959 and i think you know the like i'd like 436 00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:43,360 to know how that 437 00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:44,880 well i'd like to know to the extent that 438 00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:47,360 you feel it's uh relevant or interesting 439 00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:48,639 to uh 440 00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,440 to play into this because this is this 441 00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,600 larger stream of 442 00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:54,959 consciousness that we're all tapping 443 00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:57,120 into in different ways and like one of 444 00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:59,519 my friends of the show and friend mark 445 00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:00,560 ireland 446 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:03,519 lost a son and that's what kind of 447 00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,680 propelled him into 448 00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,360 looking into the near-death experience 449 00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:09,120 stuff but then he found in his 450 00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:11,440 background that he had kind of been 451 00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:13,920 primed for it in a way in some major 452 00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:15,920 ways in terms of his father was like 453 00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:17,519 super psychic his uncle was super 454 00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:18,800 psychic and all the restless and they 455 00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:20,639 were immediately connecting with the 456 00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,959 other side and so i think it's kind of 457 00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:24,880 interesting 458 00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:26,000 in a way 459 00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:27,600 that 460 00:16:33,189 --> 00:16:30,639 you were primed you know you were primed 461 00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,870 you know and then all the things we have 462 00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,560 to deal with that in terms of i mean 463 00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:38,480 that's so personal you know that's so 464 00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:42,000 personal but at the same time it is the 465 00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:44,240 essence of this thing that we're talking 466 00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:46,160 about with the near-death experience and 467 00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:49,040 the scientific wrinkle and the look 468 00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,519 behind the curtain and all this other 469 00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:53,199 stuff that we might think about in a 470 00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:56,160 much much deeper way than most people 471 00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:58,800 are talking about so i don't want you to 472 00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:00,959 share any more than 473 00:17:06,470 --> 00:17:03,440 than we need to or you need to and if 474 00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,480 you want we can take all that out but 475 00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,079 you know 476 00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,039 how how does this all fit together in 477 00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,880 terms of when you look at 478 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,520 life and death and the people who are 479 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,360 closest to us and 480 00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:19,280 the people you know your kids i got four 481 00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:22,240 kids it's like i tell my kids you know i 482 00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:24,640 said look you don't get this 483 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,679 but you have a piece of my heart 484 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:30,080 you got it i mean i can't do anything 485 00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:31,760 with it other than sit back and go oh my 486 00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,960 god 487 00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,480 be really careful with it because 488 00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,960 there's nothing i can do you own it i 489 00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,440 i don't no longer have it you know 490 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:42,000 so i don't know 491 00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:44,960 yeah it was um 492 00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:48,000 it was uh it's been interesting it ha my 493 00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:49,679 son passed about two years ago was when 494 00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:52,559 covid hit in my he he came 495 00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:53,679 to 496 00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,559 the area sarasota i live on longboat key 497 00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,400 which is right off sarasota 498 00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:01,679 and he um he'd been struggling with uh 499 00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:04,559 addiction for boy about 10 years 500 00:18:10,950 --> 00:18:08,400 and um he'd been going back and you know 501 00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:10,960 back and forth going down to like peru 502 00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,679 and 503 00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,440 um he was getting 504 00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:15,600 you know treatments for you know using 505 00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:18,160 which which now we're seeing this happen 506 00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,600 all around all around the world now 507 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:22,160 where they're using psychedelics in in 508 00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:24,400 therapy it's becoming more prevalent 509 00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,160 whether it's psilocybin 510 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:28,320 uh well mdma which is not really 511 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,960 psychedelic but ibugine uh which uh 512 00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:32,640 which he he 513 00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:34,720 he did once that's pretty brutal stuff 514 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:37,039 and that had major impact on him it 515 00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:39,200 really helped him for a long time 516 00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,080 so 517 00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,480 he was down there he studied to become a 518 00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,320 shaman for a while really interesting 519 00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,640 kid you know he's really he was really 520 00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,280 talented poet you know the whole thing 521 00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:51,200 so he got here he didn't really know 522 00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,080 anybody and then covet hit and you know 523 00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:57,120 he couldn't get work he isolated 524 00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,559 a little bit too much and um and it just 525 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,720 it just happened and you know we had 526 00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:05,039 been living with that fear for so long 527 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,919 so 528 00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:07,760 i had a sense always that it was going 529 00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,080 to happen there were two times where he 530 00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,320 probably should have uh well he should 531 00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,679 have passed 532 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:15,840 and and twice he had you know somebody 533 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,960 saw and they got a narcon kit there and 534 00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,200 brought him back so he's been he's been 535 00:19:25,909 --> 00:19:23,520 on both sides a few times 536 00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,919 but so yeah that happened and it just 537 00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:27,600 blew my mind i mean it just blew me out 538 00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:29,039 of the water and there was so much going 539 00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:30,880 on at the same time between you know 540 00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,840 covid and you know my world of you know 541 00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:35,760 the way i trade and trying to hold 542 00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,679 everything together at once and you know 543 00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,600 i just had a you know i had kind of a 544 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,280 bit of a meltdown 545 00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:44,080 so i was uh again also because the way i 546 00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:46,480 grew up so you know for whatever reason 547 00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:48,080 it hit me you know 548 00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:49,200 maybe 549 00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:50,640 everybody processed it differently but 550 00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:53,200 it hit me insanely hard 551 00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,760 and i was you know pretty much bedridden 552 00:19:59,990 --> 00:19:57,360 for a long time 553 00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:00,000 and uh despondent and and one day my 554 00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:01,520 wife came up to me 555 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:04,960 and she gave me this workbook and uh you 556 00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,000 know i was 557 00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,640 my whole philosophy was if i woke up i 558 00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:10,960 would take i forget i'm pretty healthy 559 00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,679 person but i would take zeke 560 00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,440 and it would like knock me out and if i 561 00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,919 woke up just to distract my brain i 562 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,400 would watch liverpool soccer and so but 563 00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:22,080 but at the time they weren't playing any 564 00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,919 you know live games so i watched the 565 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,520 same three games 566 00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,840 for like three or four months and it was 567 00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:29,919 i knew every shot i knew 568 00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,520 the good thing is they always won in 569 00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:33,440 these games and my teams on the new york 570 00:20:37,510 --> 00:20:35,360 sports fan they always lose so in that 571 00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,520 sense it was fantastic so 572 00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,559 a little sidetracked there but uh no not 573 00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:42,640 not not not really you know for 574 00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:43,520 something 575 00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:46,000 for someone who still watches uh at 576 00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,400 youtube lsu 2019 jill burrow you know we 577 00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:52,640 couldn't tell you you know but yeah uh 578 00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,080 you know it's it's 579 00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,320 in a way that's it's going to link up 580 00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:59,039 with what we're talking about here 581 00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:00,880 in a very strange way and i think you 582 00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,679 and i link up in some interesting ways 583 00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:05,760 in terms of the perspective we bring to 584 00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,000 this and it will come back into play 585 00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:10,480 folks i guarantee you 586 00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:11,440 but 587 00:21:15,669 --> 00:21:13,120 we won't go down that too much further 588 00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:15,679 let's switch back and talk about your 589 00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,480 other 590 00:21:21,669 --> 00:21:19,679 uh contributing author to this dr 591 00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,679 gregory shushan give us a little bit of 592 00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:23,919 a background on who he is 593 00:21:26,789 --> 00:21:24,880 sure 594 00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:26,799 well gregory is uh 595 00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:27,679 he is 596 00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,720 an academic a ph.d and his 597 00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,880 uh his background 598 00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,720 really is 599 00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,799 his some of his lectures and 600 00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:38,960 the interview he did with him i mean 601 00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,120 kind of must read um 602 00:21:45,990 --> 00:21:43,440 stuff it can get pretty heady his books 603 00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:46,000 are pretty difficult to read sometimes 604 00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,480 when he when he speaks and and the way 605 00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:50,159 he wrote in this book it's a little more 606 00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,559 hands-on but he looks at the near-death 607 00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,400 experience over time and through 608 00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:56,080 different culture 609 00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,640 uh and and you know the similarities how 610 00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:00,960 they're interpreted uh differently but 611 00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,960 in a sense they're all the same um you 612 00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:04,240 know based on 613 00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:05,280 you know 614 00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,640 where a person 615 00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,120 comes from the uh the stories they were 616 00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:12,320 told uh the the myths that they learned 617 00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:15,520 whether it was um you know parce fall or 618 00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,159 star wars kinds of things and how 619 00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,360 ultimately they're so similar um and let 620 00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,200 me just interject dj because your book 621 00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,679 does uh a great job of that again the 622 00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,000 book is the crossover experience you 623 00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:30,400 want to check it out like it's it's 624 00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:33,039 worth the price and if you have kindle 625 00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:35,840 unlimited the price is zero but even if 626 00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,400 you don't it's very very 627 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,360 affordable book just to read 628 00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,679 the thought process of dr gregory 629 00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,159 shushan and as you said academic 630 00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:48,880 researcher we already know that if you 631 00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:52,240 want to if you observe a phenomenon like 632 00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,200 near-death experience and you have any 633 00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:57,120 sort of broader 634 00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:59,200 mind and it goes towards anthropology 635 00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:00,640 and sociology one of the things you want 636 00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,240 to do is start looking at cross-culture 637 00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,919 across time because 638 00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:06,000 then a lot of things fall away and you 639 00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:08,080 go oh that's just something that we 640 00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:09,919 cooked up in our culture when you start 641 00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,600 singing across time across culture then 642 00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:13,280 you go aha there's something more to 643 00:23:16,789 --> 00:23:15,440 this his aha 644 00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:16,799 goes one step further which you were 645 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:19,600 just alluding to he said you know what 646 00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:22,559 i can definitely trace 647 00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:25,039 how these different cultures with 648 00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:27,600 different religious traditions 649 00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,600 shifted after 650 00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,679 the near-death experience entered into 651 00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:33,280 their culture so 652 00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:35,760 you know you're this polynesian 653 00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:37,919 village and you got your gods and you 654 00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,320 got this and suddenly 655 00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:42,159 bobo over there has a near-death 656 00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:44,320 experience and he comes back and now 657 00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:45,840 your religious 658 00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,720 traditions about death and dying they 659 00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:49,919 change 660 00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:51,520 and the only thing that as an 661 00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,880 anthropologist 662 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:54,720 sociologist the only thing you could say 663 00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,360 is 664 00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:58,000 something about that guy's experience 665 00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:00,080 was so compelling that it changed and 666 00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,760 then when you find that over and over 667 00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,960 and over again around the world across 668 00:24:11,029 --> 00:24:07,520 hundreds of different years he just does 669 00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:11,039 the solid scientific work and say 670 00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:12,080 well 671 00:24:16,789 --> 00:24:13,840 we can only conclude that these 672 00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:16,799 near-death experiences were extremely 673 00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:19,919 profound informing their beliefs about 674 00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:22,559 the afterlife and 675 00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:25,039 i think that's phenomenal and i would 676 00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,440 also maybe tie it back to 677 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,279 this book that you've that you've 678 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,440 written and compiled because 679 00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:33,200 one of the things i really think is 680 00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,799 great about the book and it ties back to 681 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:36,559 the skeptic part that you're saying and 682 00:24:40,149 --> 00:24:37,760 also the 683 00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:40,159 hate to say the hedge fund trader part 684 00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:41,840 because you mentioned a minute ago that 685 00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:45,120 you're a skeptic and like i'm a skeptic 686 00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:47,679 but like i'm not really a skeptic you 687 00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:50,320 know and i would suspect that 688 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,240 dr pin von lammel he he's a skeptic but 689 00:24:57,909 --> 00:24:56,240 in a good way he's not really a skeptic 690 00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:57,919 because everyone else again like the 691 00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,760 sort you tell i mean that guy dies on 692 00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:01,600 the table and he's experienced death 693 00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:03,279 over and over again he's a cardiologist 694 00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:05,840 like people die every day in front of 695 00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,480 pinpoglamo so when this guy comes back 696 00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,799 and says hey pim 697 00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:12,159 what's going on why are you making that 698 00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:13,520 joke 699 00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,240 and he goes what do you mean you're dead 700 00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,840 i know what dead means your heart 701 00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:19,200 stopped your brain had stopped it was 702 00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,960 two minutes after they were flatlined we 703 00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:23,120 were monitoring everything oh no i was 704 00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:24,480 there 705 00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,440 the the skeptic in the bad sense that 706 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:29,039 we're used to 707 00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:30,720 is all his colleagues who he talks to 708 00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:32,320 and go no 709 00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:33,840 don't don't process that in that way 710 00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,360 that ain't going to be good for 711 00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:37,120 everything that i want 712 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,159 the person who is ready either because 713 00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:42,720 of 10 past lives or just because they're 714 00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:45,679 open-minded or whatever says 715 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,400 no this is something i need to look into 716 00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,600 and so when you say you're a skeptic you 717 00:25:54,549 --> 00:25:53,440 know i guess i'd say like the thing i 718 00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:54,559 think is interesting about the hedge 719 00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,760 fund manager is oh come on dj you know 720 00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,279 that doesn't work you can't write a 721 00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:01,840 trading program that beats the market 722 00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:04,240 the market it's a random walk that 723 00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:05,840 doesn't work what would you tell 724 00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,279 somebody who who had that belief about 725 00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:11,200 the market and about training programs 726 00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:15,120 and about hedge fund craziness 727 00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,600 you know there's more going on and uh 728 00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,039 well i i let me they're checked because 729 00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:20,960 it was a lead-up question i'd say 730 00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:23,520 look at my freaking house pal look at my 731 00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:25,440 bank account it kind of tells a 732 00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:27,760 different story but if that's what you 733 00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,120 want to believe 734 00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,440 hey i wish you the best of luck 735 00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,080 yeah it's uh it's interesting and and i 736 00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:36,720 think that was so helpful for me when i 737 00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:38,559 really started really going into the 738 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:40,080 near-death experience was having the 739 00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,520 experience i had 740 00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:43,600 uh in the markets because it's not 741 00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:45,600 random even though people think it is 742 00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,440 they see volatility and 743 00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,159 it looks random but if you look at a 744 00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:52,480 chart you know graph of what the markets 745 00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:53,440 have done 746 00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:54,559 uh it's 747 00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,919 fascinating patterns that you'll see uh 748 00:27:04,230 --> 00:26:59,520 within a day 749 00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:04,240 you'll see a similar pattern over a 750 00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,640 period of a week and over a month and 751 00:27:11,909 --> 00:27:09,360 over 10 years and over 100 years these 752 00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,919 are these are very consistent patterns 753 00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,440 you can't always capitalize on them 754 00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,600 because they are somewhat random and 755 00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,679 people try to trade the patterns that 756 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,679 are obvious but then if you dig a little 757 00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:21,360 bit deeper then there are things that 758 00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,360 start to happen that are not as random 759 00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,960 they're harder to find 760 00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:26,720 but ultimately they're going to be there 761 00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,000 because all of this these charts and you 762 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,240 know lines and what have you that start 763 00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,240 to form these patterns and visually you 764 00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:36,480 can i can show somebody this and they'll 765 00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:39,120 say wow it's really there 766 00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:40,960 it doesn't go away and more than 767 00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:42,480 visually correct me if i'm wrong but 768 00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,640 i've read this and you think not only 769 00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,159 can you show it to them visually but you 770 00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,480 can show them to them statistically you 771 00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,960 can say there is a correlation here here 772 00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,000 it is 773 00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:54,640 yeah well you know i just say you know i 774 00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,520 track my numbers and so if if i'm going 775 00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,679 to talk to somebody and perhaps 776 00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,399 you know manage uh funds for them you 777 00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,640 know here's here's my account i show my 778 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,919 literal account 779 00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:07,840 and you know i'm not taking new assets 780 00:28:09,909 --> 00:28:09,039 so 781 00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,919 i'm not 782 00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:11,360 trying to brag but 783 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,399 but i've been doing over 40 a year in my 784 00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:17,200 most recent program over the last uh 785 00:28:21,909 --> 00:28:19,360 since 2011 786 00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:21,919 and um i trade i'm a true hedge fund 787 00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,399 most hedge funds don't hedge positions 788 00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:26,080 they're long they're all along the same 789 00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:27,440 thing these hedge funds are so large 790 00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,480 right now but i i trade more commodities 791 00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:33,279 than stocks and so a barrel of oil 792 00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:36,559 a bar of gold and a bond treasury bond 793 00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,279 and these things are are much more pure 794 00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:41,120 you know a barrel of oil has been a 795 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:44,000 bearable oil 100 years nobody can you 796 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,360 know tell you it's going to earn this 797 00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:47,440 much more you know here or there same 798 00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,159 with gold it just is what it is and so 799 00:28:54,950 --> 00:28:52,799 they have even more pure motion than 800 00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:54,960 stock stocks have so many things going 801 00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,000 on under the surface and so much 802 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,480 misdirection whether it's by the ceo or 803 00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,120 the analysts or the sell side that's you 804 00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:05,679 know floating in new ipo for them 805 00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:06,960 when you start to get into something 806 00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,360 like like gold for example 807 00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:11,600 and oil the the patterns you can start 808 00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:13,919 to see other types of more consistent 809 00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:16,320 patterns not over the short term but 810 00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:18,000 but it's all emotion it's all human 811 00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:20,320 emotion i mean the price over 20 years 812 00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:22,880 might go up but all the stuff that's 813 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,279 going on to get you there these patterns 814 00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,360 you don't go straight those patterns are 815 00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,440 all based on emotion so it's it's it's 816 00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:32,000 fascinating and that can be applied i 817 00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:34,000 found that uh so applicable to what i 818 00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:35,200 started to see in the near-death 819 00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:36,640 experience when i started crunching 820 00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:38,799 those numbers and that really blew me 821 00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:41,679 away uh that blew me away because it's 822 00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,720 clear 823 00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:44,159 when you go through them and if you have 824 00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,760 an eye for looking at those types of 825 00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,360 things and i'm not talking about 826 00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:49,440 crunching statistics in the way that 827 00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,679 like in my opinion the guys like pim van 828 00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,039 lamo 829 00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:55,679 you know peter fenwick early on raymond 830 00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:58,320 moody you know they they did the numbers 831 00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,919 and one of the things i say in the book 832 00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,159 which people could take offense to is 833 00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:04,799 that everything we've learned about the 834 00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:06,880 near death experience we really learned 835 00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:09,840 it you know 40 years ago you know the 836 00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:10,799 major 837 00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,440 uh themes within a near-death experience 838 00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,120 you know the out-of-body experience the 839 00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:17,440 tunnel going into the light the life 840 00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:20,240 review etc nothing has changed in those 841 00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:21,679 stories over 842 00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,840 the last 40 plus years and we're getting 843 00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:26,399 so many of them obviously since the 60s 844 00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,279 with ever since we saw resuscitation 845 00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:30,480 techniques because now you're talking 846 00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:32,880 about thousands of people that have had 847 00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,960 these near-death experiences 848 00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:36,880 which in and of itself though i mean 849 00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:39,120 there's there's so much to 850 00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,720 deconstruct there that i don't want to 851 00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,720 go too far down that because that raises 852 00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:44,720 the whole question of the scientific 853 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:47,360 wrinkle thing you know like is 854 00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:49,760 science somehow driving this you know is 855 00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:52,080 god driving this what are the patterns 856 00:30:55,909 --> 00:30:54,159 and all the rest of it what what we're 857 00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:55,919 really highlighting and i think you did 858 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,559 an awesome job of explaining is 859 00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,360 you are bringing a different perspective 860 00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:04,000 to this it comes through in the book let 861 00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:05,760 me dip into this 862 00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,039 into the book a little bit and talk 863 00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:09,039 about it so that people get i keep 864 00:31:12,789 --> 00:31:10,720 saying it's different it's unique and 865 00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,799 it's very cool 866 00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,720 what you've done here is 867 00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:15,919 you've 868 00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,640 again if this hedge fund trader who's 869 00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,120 looking for patterns you 870 00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,200 look through thousands of near-death 871 00:31:28,389 --> 00:31:26,320 experiences and you pulled out these 872 00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,399 patterns and some of them are will be 873 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:30,960 very familiar to us you know auto body 874 00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,600 experience tunnel into the light hellish 875 00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:35,279 i love that you have hellish in there 876 00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,799 because that's something that people 877 00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,480 immediately are drawn to and we'll talk 878 00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,760 about that 879 00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:41,600 life review all these things and then 880 00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,559 for each one of those what people can do 881 00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:47,039 is they can go in there and you've 882 00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,039 called out little snippets of these 883 00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,039 experiences because when it comes to 884 00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,200 near-death experiences we all want to 885 00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,919 hear the stories and you do that you 886 00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,840 provide kind of some of the most 887 00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:00,159 meaningful parts of these different 888 00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:03,120 stories but then what you do is two 889 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:07,440 really cool things you summarize for us 890 00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:08,880 some of the most 891 00:32:13,669 --> 00:32:11,679 i guess bullet points of that 892 00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,679 you know the life review what you'll 893 00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:15,600 hear consistently you give us some 894 00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:18,159 statistics with even some nice graphics 895 00:32:21,669 --> 00:32:20,320 that says this is what you'll find there 896 00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,679 and then 897 00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:24,080 you have this wonderful commentary where 898 00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:27,760 you dr pinvalamel and dr gregory shushan 899 00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,760 are each offering 900 00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,159 their perspective and it turns out to be 901 00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,880 quite a unique in a lot of cases 902 00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:36,880 perspective about 903 00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,679 the tunnel about the life review about 904 00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:41,679 all these things so this is something i 905 00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:43,279 think people 906 00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,600 you know even people who are familiar or 907 00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:47,200 think they're familiar with the near 908 00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,919 death experience they'll really find 909 00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:51,440 a fresh 910 00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:54,559 kind of way of pulling this apart and 911 00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:57,200 looking at it so you're really to be 912 00:33:01,990 --> 00:32:59,840 credited with uh with this unique 913 00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,000 approach that you've taken 914 00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:03,760 what are what are people saying are 915 00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:05,279 people getting this are people 916 00:33:08,870 --> 00:33:07,919 responding to this kind of thing 917 00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,880 you know 918 00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:10,720 what's interesting is the people that 919 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:12,640 have read it that i've that i've spoken 920 00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,440 to or the reviews that i've read 921 00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:17,200 um 922 00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,679 they're they're looking at it 923 00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,440 well so many of them have never have not 924 00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:23,519 read anything about the near-death 925 00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:25,120 experience so it's 926 00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:28,640 it's kind of their introduction into it 927 00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:32,480 and they like the format it is different 928 00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:33,440 but 929 00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:36,240 i you know i'm i'm just starting to hear 930 00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,679 i'm trying to you know i'm interested in 931 00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,600 the contrast because i did want to 932 00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:41,039 create something i wanted to create 933 00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:42,640 something that i would wanted to read 934 00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:45,360 that's what i always do with a film so 935 00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:47,919 and it doesn't always isn't always the 936 00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,080 best seller because i pick topics that 937 00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:51,600 are sometimes 938 00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,320 you know difficult especially i've done 939 00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:57,200 them on capitalism greed racism things 940 00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:58,320 like that 941 00:34:02,070 --> 00:34:00,240 and i do them in a style that's i don't 942 00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:02,080 want to say in your face but is somewhat 943 00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,360 provocative 944 00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:05,679 and i feel like 945 00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:08,159 i feel like that 946 00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:09,679 with a certain 947 00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,280 nde crowd 948 00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,839 may not like it because some of the 949 00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:15,040 things that i 950 00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:16,639 unearthed in in 951 00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:19,119 what i was looking at are hard to 952 00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:22,000 explain and haven't been expressed 953 00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,040 before 954 00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,839 and aren't very comforting in a way 955 00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:27,760 although i think there's more to it 956 00:34:32,710 --> 00:34:30,639 there's something behind it but 957 00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,720 i was very surprised after reading so 958 00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,399 many of these that there are just you 959 00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:36,560 know a few things where it's like wow 960 00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:39,040 haven't how come i've never heard that 961 00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,480 because they're big things and one 962 00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:43,280 example would be um 963 00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,480 how i 964 00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:46,720 never heard of 965 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:49,440 any of and i in this book i was very 966 00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:50,960 careful because i read a lot of books 967 00:34:55,669 --> 00:34:53,440 where they say that the person uh was 968 00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:55,679 dead but i really stayed with people 969 00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:57,920 that were clinically dead and that it 970 00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:00,960 happened either in a hospital setting or 971 00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:03,119 if it were outside of a hospital it was 972 00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:05,440 somebody that either had a medical 973 00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:08,000 experience or was an emt so i really 974 00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,240 only wanted that because that's where 975 00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,480 you know i'm not discounting any other 976 00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:14,960 kind of near-death experience but as a 977 00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:17,040 as a massive skeptic i really wanted to 978 00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:19,200 stick with i really wanted to skew the 979 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:22,079 odds in my favor in the sense that this 980 00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,200 is um 981 00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,280 very hard to to um 982 00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,520 you know to knock down 983 00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,520 you know the kind of 984 00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,520 research and statistics i was able to 985 00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:33,440 come out with but just as an interesting 986 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,480 example 987 00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:36,960 in reading so many of these i i never 988 00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:40,480 heard of anyone say they saw their wife 989 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:43,359 on the other side they saw relatives and 990 00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,880 now a lot of these people obviously are 991 00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:46,800 older so they've had a spouse 992 00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:49,440 pre-decease them and so how is that 993 00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:52,560 possible i'm not talking i saw one or 994 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:53,440 two 995 00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,200 or i saw you know 996 00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:57,359 three percent had them i'm talking going 997 00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,880 through thousands of these and i never 998 00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:00,240 saw one 999 00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:02,320 how is that possible i didn't see 1000 00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:05,359 anybody that had pets and i've heard of 1001 00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,359 them but i went through thousands of 1002 00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:09,599 these and i never saw them i think that 1003 00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:11,440 there's something you know more 1004 00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,200 obviously 1005 00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:15,440 a lot of these people spoke of kind of 1006 00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:17,599 traveling in the spiritual pack that 1007 00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:19,280 they go through these 1008 00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:21,440 lifetimes with so 1009 00:36:25,750 --> 00:36:23,839 obviously if we're you know 1010 00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:25,760 living with if we're married to if we're 1011 00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:28,160 that connected we have a spouse 1012 00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:29,760 that's you know and and we're part of 1013 00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,079 this group that's still going to happen 1014 00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:34,079 because in a lot of cases they say if 1015 00:36:37,829 --> 00:36:36,079 you go beyond this point you can't come 1016 00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:37,839 back well obviously they never went 1017 00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:39,200 beyond that point or they wouldn't have 1018 00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,079 come back but my guess is that that's in 1019 00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,560 the beyond you can't can't convince me 1020 00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,040 otherwise but the fact of the matter is 1021 00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,440 no one even broaches that subject and 1022 00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:51,839 it's there now i think it's all it's i 1023 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,480 think the explanation is beyond you know 1024 00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,640 if you if you go beyond that it's on the 1025 00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:58,400 other side of that bridge which people 1026 00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:00,400 often run into but how come we haven't 1027 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:01,920 discussed that 1028 00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:04,320 that's interesting to me and that's 1029 00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:06,079 these are the little things that i 1030 00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:08,000 really love going through because i look 1031 00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:10,480 at the little things help you 1032 00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,520 to flesh out something i believe is is 1033 00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:14,400 more 1034 00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:18,880 rich 1035 00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:22,079 confusing confounding interesting 1036 00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,160 mind-blowing you know that's the kind of 1037 00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,920 stuff i like to see 1038 00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:28,079 totally and i think that you know 1039 00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:30,560 there's a couple points too and i can go 1040 00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:32,400 all skeptical on you here in a minute as 1041 00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,520 well but 1042 00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:35,839 i i think again 1043 00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:38,000 to me that's the hedge fund trader you 1044 00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,599 know because 1045 00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:41,599 people i haven't traded a lot but i 1046 00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:43,520 trade enough and i manage enough assets 1047 00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,560 enough that there's a certain clarity 1048 00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,960 that comes with money especially large 1049 00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,480 amounts of money that you just can't get 1050 00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:52,400 anywhere else because everyone in the 1051 00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:55,680 world is so consumed with that and when 1052 00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:57,760 you master that to some degree there is 1053 00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:59,839 a great feeling of control about that 1054 00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:02,000 and i think it it comes through to me in 1055 00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:02,800 that 1056 00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:05,440 you can be matter of fact in in a way 1057 00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:07,040 that a lot of people just can't handle 1058 00:38:09,030 --> 00:38:08,000 you're like 1059 00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:09,040 no 1060 00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,359 i did my work i'm making the trade you 1061 00:38:15,349 --> 00:38:13,119 know that's the guy because that's the 1062 00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,359 guy like i'm sure you could tell a 1063 00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:17,520 million stories and it's off topic but 1064 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:19,119 you know guys who can't pull the trigger 1065 00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,560 they do all the analysis and then 1066 00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,520 they're like yeah but 1067 00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:25,599 by the way that's why uh because i 1068 00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,720 couldn't i'm too emotional and so i knew 1069 00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:30,480 that the and i 1070 00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:31,839 what happened is and this is another 1071 00:38:35,829 --> 00:38:33,920 story i was saying i was going to tell 1072 00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,839 you which i i can explain 1073 00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:37,680 when my son died she put a book in front 1074 00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:40,160 of me my wife and that opened me back up 1075 00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:41,760 to the nde and that just where it 1076 00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:44,079 started blowing my mind well when i was 1077 00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:45,599 younger and i was already in the 1078 00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:47,119 business um 1079 00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:49,359 but i was you know taking uh research 1080 00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,040 from the analysts and so forth my wife 1081 00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,119 put in front of me a book called the 1082 00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,800 market wizards and it was interviews 1083 00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:56,960 with top traders in the world 1084 00:39:02,630 --> 00:38:59,520 and these guys when you read it all were 1085 00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,640 insanely disciplined and they could pull 1086 00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,359 the trigger and i knew i couldn't but i 1087 00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,119 could do the research and i could create 1088 00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:09,359 a program that forced me to pull the 1089 00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:11,839 trigger so that remove even though i'll 1090 00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,440 sit there like with white knuckles 1091 00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,359 please don't do this trade now but it's 1092 00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,440 when it's so painful that that's the 1093 00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:18,960 time to do it 1094 00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,359 and so i have taken that out of the 1095 00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:23,040 equation and so i that which is what i 1096 00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,480 also try to bring to the near death 1097 00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:26,480 experience because you could get so 1098 00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,480 excited about the whole thing blows your 1099 00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:30,000 mind and then it's like yeah but like 1100 00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:31,920 but all right let's just look at these 1101 00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,800 little little gems here that i'd i'm 1102 00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:36,720 interested in that stuff that's really 1103 00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:37,520 cool 1104 00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,599 well and the way that plays out and if 1105 00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,800 we have time we'll talk about it is so 1106 00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:44,960 you bring a great perspective to the 1107 00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:47,359 near death experience as you talk about 1108 00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:49,200 at the end of the book in terms of how 1109 00:39:52,550 --> 00:39:51,040 this stuff has changed you and it 1110 00:39:54,230 --> 00:39:52,560 includes some great stories and i'm 1111 00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:54,240 going to read a couple clips a couple of 1112 00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,640 those stories because they also link 1113 00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,400 back to this thing of kind of in your 1114 00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,240 face hard reality but this is just the 1115 00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:02,160 truth i gotta tell it kind of thing some 1116 00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:03,440 of these stories aren't gonna be super 1117 00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,440 comforting to people but they are the 1118 00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,280 stories as they exist 1119 00:40:11,589 --> 00:40:09,359 you talk about 1120 00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,599 how a near-death experience can change 1121 00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,599 you even if you haven't had a near-death 1122 00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:15,359 experience because you haven't had a 1123 00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,359 near-death experience interestingly 1124 00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:19,680 enough neither has your other two 1125 00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,079 co-authors dr pinvalamel or dr gregory 1126 00:40:27,190 --> 00:40:24,079 shushan neither one has had a near-death 1127 00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:27,200 experience all have been deeply affected 1128 00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:29,760 by the experience 1129 00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:32,640 that's fantastic that's that's like in 1130 00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:34,000 some ways 1131 00:40:37,829 --> 00:40:36,000 that's more important 1132 00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:37,839 because most of us have not had a 1133 00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:40,079 near-death experience but we can gain so 1134 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,319 much but we have to be careful 1135 00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:44,160 we have to be careful how we do it and i 1136 00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,920 think you're providing us some ways to 1137 00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:48,480 do it and i would suggest also that you 1138 00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:51,680 you are making the trade you know you 1139 00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:54,400 are making the trade you're just the 1140 00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,800 program is guiding you and the reason i 1141 00:41:01,829 --> 00:40:58,480 relate that back is like 1142 00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:01,839 dr gregory shushan i love gregory sean i 1143 00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:04,720 think his work is great but he's this 1144 00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:05,680 like 1145 00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:08,640 strident agnostic you know it reminds me 1146 00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:10,240 of that south park episode if anyone's 1147 00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:12,400 ever seen it you know the the agnostic 1148 00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:15,920 it it's this militant agnostic foster 1149 00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:18,000 dad and kenny somehow winds up and he 1150 00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,680 goes over the fridge and goes this is a 1151 00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:22,000 refrigerator you only drink agnostic 1152 00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:25,119 soda that means dr pepper or diet dr 1153 00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:27,599 pepper we do not know the flavor of dr 1154 00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:30,400 pepper is it a root beer is it a cola no 1155 00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:37,190 it's hilarious how much he said yeah and 1156 00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,520 so gregory shushan to me goes through 1157 00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,560 this tortured explanation of why he has 1158 00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,200 to remain agnostic about near-death 1159 00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:47,119 experience and you want to go 1160 00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:48,400 gregory 1161 00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,160 first of all when it comes to the 1162 00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:52,240 fundamental questions in life 1163 00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,520 no one 1164 00:41:57,910 --> 00:41:55,280 is agnostic 1165 00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:57,920 because your life is not agnostic you 1166 00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:00,720 get up every day and you live your life 1167 00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:02,240 you've already made the decision someone 1168 00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:03,839 just has to look at your life go oh 1169 00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:06,319 that's what you choose you choose to 1170 00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,200 understand that there is more to life or 1171 00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,960 you look at someone else you go now 1172 00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:13,119 you're definitely choosing that there is 1173 00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,400 not nothing more to life there is no 1174 00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,319 agnosticism 1175 00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,960 when it comes when it comes to uh some 1176 00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:22,880 of these big questions what's that 1177 00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:25,280 saying there there are no something in 1178 00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:27,680 foxholes i forget that saying right 1179 00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:31,040 there's no atheists in fox right 1180 00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,280 but the other thing is and here's my 1181 00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:35,599 take on on things like that is 1182 00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:38,400 gregory's put so much work into this 1183 00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,400 topic i mean the research is 1184 00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,400 mind-blowing look at one of his books 1185 00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:44,880 and you know it would take you weeks to 1186 00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:47,200 read through the uh the bibliography and 1187 00:42:51,670 --> 00:42:49,280 and it's incredible 1188 00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:51,680 yeah and and part of that tips the hand 1189 00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,920 for him in that you know he's done a 1190 00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,240 number of these books now you could not 1191 00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,560 put that kind of time into a book unless 1192 00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:00,800 you were passionate about it 1193 00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,280 and you know you can't get up in the 1194 00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:04,960 morning every day and do that kind of 1195 00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:09,200 work that hard if if inside of you 1196 00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:11,680 you know you didn't think hey man this 1197 00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,560 is you know this is happening you know i 1198 00:43:19,109 --> 00:43:16,480 may not say it because i'm a massive 1199 00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,119 skeptic but you can't get a it's a lot 1200 00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,040 of work and it's a lot of work to do 1201 00:43:25,589 --> 00:43:23,520 even you know any book but but he's done 1202 00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:25,599 how many in the lectures he's given so 1203 00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,400 he's 1204 00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:28,560 at some level man you can't tell me you 1205 00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:30,880 know and he's too nice and calm and 1206 00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:33,440 mellow too and happy and you right i 1207 00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,160 mean the people that i've uh well that i 1208 00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,400 watched you know the interviews you do 1209 00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,079 with people i mean you saw it within the 1210 00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:42,880 llama i mean this guy is just you know 1211 00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,280 he's so he's you can't tell them 1212 00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:46,800 otherwise just like people that have had 1213 00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:48,640 it you'll never convince them otherwise 1214 00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,400 once you feel that and as someone who 1215 00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:52,960 had a massive fear of death 1216 00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,920 it's wild how it's just you know and i'm 1217 00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,000 not chill i mean i would everybody knows 1218 00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,240 i'm an open book it's changed it's just 1219 00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:03,040 totally changed because you know i saw 1220 00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,560 it happen with my trading programs 1221 00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:06,400 there's much more going on it's energy 1222 00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,720 it's emotion it's that and then you see 1223 00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:10,480 these kinds of things when you discuss 1224 00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:12,800 you know back you know prehistoric days 1225 00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,079 when joe the you know who discovered the 1226 00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:17,920 wheel comes out of his cave and had a 1227 00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:19,920 near-death experience and all of a 1228 00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:21,920 sudden now they have this this thing 1229 00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,079 well this wasn't you know in most cases 1230 00:44:29,030 --> 00:44:26,640 i'm sure this is not the medicine man 1231 00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,040 that had it it's somebody random now 1232 00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:31,040 who's going to believe somebody random 1233 00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:33,599 because they have such 1234 00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:34,480 uh 1235 00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,359 conviction you can see it in their face 1236 00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,359 you can hear it and the inflection in 1237 00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:41,920 their voice you know the they tell the 1238 00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:44,160 sa it's you can't you know you're like 1239 00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:46,480 dude okay man i'm in you know i believe 1240 00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:48,880 it and then boom but tricky gj because 1241 00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:51,520 that's that's partially where you're 1242 00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,480 coming from that's not all the way where 1243 00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:56,800 you're coming from because you're still 1244 00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,960 looking through the data you're still 1245 00:45:03,109 --> 00:45:00,400 combing through the data yeah and in 1246 00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:03,119 that sense you are a skeptic you know 1247 00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:04,400 but my 1248 00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,839 ethos motto on skeptico is inquiry to 1249 00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:09,520 perpetuate doubt you know whenever we 1250 00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,319 settle on something then 1251 00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:14,240 the true spirituality is in the doubt in 1252 00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:15,760 the quest so i'm going to give you a 1253 00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,599 little hack here that kind of 1254 00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,000 contradicts what you said earlier but 1255 00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,680 i've shared it on the show before but i 1256 00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:23,760 did it right real time while you did 1257 00:45:29,109 --> 00:45:24,480 that 1258 00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:31,910 yeah jeff jeffrey long and so just do 1259 00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:33,599 the google search 1260 00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:39,510 wife 1261 00:45:43,910 --> 00:45:40,720 husband 1262 00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:43,920 and you'll find a bunch of 1263 00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:45,920 near-death experiences where they go my 1264 00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,160 wife was there my wife pulled me over 1265 00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,640 here my wife did this my first wife some 1266 00:45:55,910 --> 00:45:52,560 will save my first wife and and this and 1267 00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:55,920 that so i i do think that is out there 1268 00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:58,160 if you might be on to something in terms 1269 00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:00,800 of how prominent it is and and we can do 1270 00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:03,200 that uh go down that whole path 1271 00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:04,800 but if i can i want to kind of swing 1272 00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:07,520 back because i i love the stories 1273 00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:09,599 in the book the snippets 1274 00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:12,160 and i want to share a couple especially 1275 00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:13,920 this one because it highlights this 1276 00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,200 point 1277 00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:17,520 again back to this 1278 00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:19,920 soulful hedge fund trader everyone 1279 00:46:22,470 --> 00:46:20,720 thinks 1280 00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,480 hedge fund traders are soulless we have 1281 00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:24,800 a soulful hedge fund trader and i was 1282 00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:26,400 mentioning that the 1283 00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:28,560 near the end of the book they have 1284 00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:31,200 a chapter great chapter how this has 1285 00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:32,720 changed me 1286 00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:35,119 and here's one of the stories 1287 00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:36,720 from one of the contributors people 1288 00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:37,680 someone who's had a near-death 1289 00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:39,200 experience 1290 00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,599 i lost connection with all my friends 1291 00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:43,040 i was unable to do the social 1292 00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,640 interactions that i used to do 1293 00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:46,640 communication dropped off completely i 1294 00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,240 was in my own little world trying to put 1295 00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:50,480 the pieces of the puzzle back together i 1296 00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:52,560 resigned from my career as in financial 1297 00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,400 technology i dropped all communication 1298 00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,560 with my co-workers i read books all day 1299 00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,400 long i learned about crystals and how to 1300 00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:01,119 create pyramids today i'm an artist my 1301 00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:04,160 relationship with my wife is on finn ice 1302 00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:06,400 that part has been sad i hope it works 1303 00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,599 out 1304 00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,520 she sees a totally different person 1305 00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:10,800 she's right 1306 00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,520 let me read one more even more kind of 1307 00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:15,280 startling in a way 1308 00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,960 during my first year i tried to forget 1309 00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,960 what i'd seen sometimes i tried to drink 1310 00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:20,400 it away but that just seemed to make it 1311 00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:22,559 worse and more vivid i stopped drinking 1312 00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:24,559 or taking anything stronger than aspirin 1313 00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,000 and then i started to feel peace again 1314 00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,079 with my memory of it i didn't pull it in 1315 00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,319 there but in that one she goes i 1316 00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,800 immediately divorced my husband 1317 00:47:35,990 --> 00:47:34,880 i saw a lot of that this relates to a 1318 00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:36,000 couple points 1319 00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,720 one is the uh integration problem that 1320 00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,720 you know we we are sometimes 1321 00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:44,160 uncomfortable talking about when we 1322 00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:46,079 really get into and that's what this 1323 00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:47,119 book 1324 00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:50,640 is is fearless about is like saying hey 1325 00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,880 we don't know exactly what this means 1326 00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:54,559 but i'm going to put it all on the table 1327 00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:55,839 from a different bunch of different 1328 00:48:02,150 --> 00:47:58,960 perspectives medical anthropological and 1329 00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,160 just kind of uh hard ass 1330 00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:04,319 you know analyze this 1331 00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:06,640 quantum economist kind of way i'm going 1332 00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,240 to look at it all these ways but it 1333 00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:10,079 still isn't exactly going to make sense 1334 00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,559 and moreover it might scare the crap out 1335 00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:14,640 of you because if someone offers you 1336 00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:15,760 today 1337 00:48:20,150 --> 00:48:17,599 okay you can lose everything you can 1338 00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,160 lose all your friends you can lose your 1339 00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:22,480 relationship with your spouse you can 1340 00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:24,000 lose all this stuff 1341 00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:25,520 but it's going to be the greatest thing 1342 00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:28,240 in your life you'll say that you know a 1343 00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,559 lot of us would pull up and go 1344 00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,040 whoa well well wait a minute tell me why 1345 00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:35,280 i would want to do that 1346 00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:36,960 so talk about 1347 00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:39,359 your decision to 1348 00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:42,400 kind of just lay it on the line and i 1349 00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:44,240 don't want to skew things because the 1350 00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,359 book for the most part you know 90 is 1351 00:48:52,790 --> 00:48:50,160 extremely extremely 1352 00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:52,800 positive and uplifting and it's because 1353 00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:54,800 near death experience is about our 1354 00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:56,880 ultimate connection with the light with 1355 00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:59,280 love with god about making life more 1356 00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,400 meaningful 1357 00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:02,000 but also let's talk about this part 1358 00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,520 because you're willing to go there in 1359 00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,760 terms of it's not perfect and we don't 1360 00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:07,440 really understand what it means and it 1361 00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:10,319 still presents a huge challenge which i 1362 00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,760 think you shared 1363 00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:13,760 so beautifully at the beginning 1364 00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,319 this doesn't mean that your life is 1365 00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,040 solved that all your problems what you 1366 00:49:26,710 --> 00:49:22,480 perceive as your problems are over 1367 00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:28,390 well 1368 00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,720 i think one of the interesting things is 1369 00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:32,480 that when people are told 1370 00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:33,359 um 1371 00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:34,480 you are 1372 00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:37,359 it's not your time you know you have 1373 00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,559 you have 1374 00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:40,640 things to do work to do 1375 00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,720 it's interesting that they don't that 1376 00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,400 they're not told what it is 1377 00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:45,839 and a lot of people come back and 1378 00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:47,760 they're confused they know that they 1379 00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:48,720 have 1380 00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:51,839 fired up 1381 00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,680 um but they don't know what that purpose 1382 00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:56,480 is and i think that's important because 1383 00:50:02,309 --> 00:49:59,760 it's in that struggle uh to figure 1384 00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:02,319 it out that it's whatever it is it's 1385 00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:04,160 very very important there's a reason you 1386 00:50:06,309 --> 00:50:05,200 came back 1387 00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,319 but 1388 00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,480 what is it you know and 1389 00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:10,160 so there's you know a lot of people come 1390 00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,040 back and and you know there they don't 1391 00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:15,359 tell others they may not tell them for 1392 00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,119 10 20 years they some that don't even 1393 00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:19,680 tell their their spouse their friends i 1394 00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:21,200 mean i know that you know writing this 1395 00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:22,960 book i really don't discuss it with 1396 00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,559 friends because i'm 1397 00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,200 i mean i've been involved in so many out 1398 00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,200 there projects so you know they kind of 1399 00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,720 roll their eyes with most things that i 1400 00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:32,720 do so i can get away with some of this 1401 00:50:37,030 --> 00:50:34,720 stuff but a lot of people you know 1402 00:50:38,309 --> 00:50:37,040 they're they're extremely uncomfortable 1403 00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,319 and 1404 00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:40,559 you know they come back with many many 1405 00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:43,599 more questions than uh than answers but 1406 00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:45,440 the answers that they 1407 00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,720 experienced there were so profound that 1408 00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:50,800 you know you you can't 1409 00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:52,480 you know it's once you've 1410 00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,200 once you've seen once you've seen 1411 00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,520 something like that you know how can how 1412 00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,760 can you go back to what you were where 1413 00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,800 you were 1414 00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:02,400 so that's um i'm not sure if i'm 1415 00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,160 answering your question 1416 00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:06,559 but in in terms of you know what i was 1417 00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,680 trying to do for the for the reader is 1418 00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,359 what i've always tried to do for myself 1419 00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:13,680 because i try to 1420 00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:16,720 build things that i'm inspired by that 1421 00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:18,800 challenge me and so 1422 00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,040 so in this book just like in the films 1423 00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:23,599 i've been doing for 20 years now 1424 00:51:28,549 --> 00:51:26,160 it's all about challenging provoking and 1425 00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:28,559 inspiring so kind of the three where you 1426 00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,640 say hey you know what is this and then 1427 00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:32,240 provoke like well it's not maybe what 1428 00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,000 you think the the point isn't like 1429 00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,640 joseph campbell says is not in learning 1430 00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:38,559 the answers to the questions it's in 1431 00:51:41,430 --> 00:51:40,720 learning how to ask the right questions 1432 00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,440 and 1433 00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,160 so this whole thing is look this is my 1434 00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:46,800 interpretation but my interpretation 1435 00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:49,359 okay i i'm in with a tunnel tunnel makes 1436 00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:50,960 sense to me they don't you know 1437 00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,480 different people describe it differently 1438 00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:54,240 nobody touches things most of the time 1439 00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:55,440 these are like the things that i find 1440 00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:57,040 fascinating the little little details 1441 00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:58,240 but 1442 00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:00,079 in japan you're going to see more of a 1443 00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:03,200 cave the american indian it was more of 1444 00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,760 a river in a canoe so they're they're 1445 00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,200 you know it's uh 1446 00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,280 is it and that's the thing how much of 1447 00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:11,040 what we're seeing is metaphor but you 1448 00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,800 know a lot of people hear that word and 1449 00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:14,160 it's a little bit charged and they say 1450 00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,000 well metaphor it's not real it's mythic 1451 00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:18,240 it's whatever it is it's misinterpreted 1452 00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,559 i mean a metaphor is much much 1453 00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,000 more it's much 1454 00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,680 more true than the truth that we 1455 00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:25,280 understand it can talk to people at 1456 00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,079 different levels and it can express the 1457 00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:30,240 same thing to people of different 1458 00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:32,559 cultures and so the thing is i'm in no 1459 00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:35,200 position to tell somebody what this 1460 00:52:40,150 --> 00:52:37,520 means i think there's a theme that 1461 00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:40,160 doesn't change in these but you know 1462 00:52:44,710 --> 00:52:42,559 just like the great teachers i mean with 1463 00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,720 the buddha or with jesus for example 1464 00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,960 they speak in metaphor so that whoever 1465 00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:48,480 was in front of them whether it was the 1466 00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:51,440 fishermen or the you know the pharisees 1467 00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:52,880 they're going to hear something very 1468 00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:54,559 very different but once they get 1469 00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:56,319 connected it becomes a 1470 00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:58,880 reality they'll never shake and so at 1471 00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,400 some point they're going to experience 1472 00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,160 each other's reality because that's just 1473 00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,680 the nature of it and whether it's in 1474 00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,599 this lifetime or the next 1475 00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:07,040 quick pause there 1476 00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:08,720 you covered so many points there that 1477 00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,880 really need to be pulled apart 1478 00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,720 what i want to do here is let's pause 1479 00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:14,559 for a minute i want to play 1480 00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,280 an extended clip from this 1481 00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,359 youtube video that you have up it's been 1482 00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:21,119 very successful where we'll receive 1483 00:53:24,309 --> 00:53:22,640 hundreds of thousands of views and it's 1484 00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,319 really really well done and i think 1485 00:53:30,030 --> 00:53:26,640 it'll bring us back to 1486 00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:30,040 those points that you just raised 1487 00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:31,680 [Music] 1488 00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,839 what if the question of the existence of 1489 00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,000 life after life could now be answered 1490 00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:38,240 with certainty 1491 00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:40,800 what if we now know what it looks like 1492 00:53:49,349 --> 00:53:46,309 a closer look into what is known as the 1493 00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:49,359 near-death experience is now giving us 1494 00:53:54,790 --> 00:53:52,160 just this opportunity 1495 00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:54,800 advances in medicine particularly more 1496 00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:56,800 effective resuscitation techniques 1497 00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:59,680 introduced in the 1960s has enabled 1498 00:54:04,470 --> 00:54:02,400 doctors nurses and emts to bring 1499 00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:04,480 millions of clinically dead people back 1500 00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:05,599 to life 1501 00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:07,680 something that was not possible before 1502 00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:10,559 this time 1503 00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:12,640 in a state of clinical death most 1504 00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:15,119 frequently brought on by cardiac arrest 1505 00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,880 the respiratory center near the brain 1506 00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:18,960 stem stops functioning 1507 00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:22,640 evidenced by the cessation of breathing 1508 00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,079 blood flow to the brain stops altogether 1509 00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:28,079 there is a complete loss of electrical 1510 00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:30,559 activity in the cerebral cortex which 1511 00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,240 results in a flat eeg 1512 00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:36,720 all brain functioning ceases and it 1513 00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:39,760 becomes impossible to be conscious or to 1514 00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,400 form memories 1515 00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,480 and yet it is in just this state of 1516 00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:46,640 clinical death when people are reporting 1517 00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,119 having the most profound experiences of 1518 00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:51,280 their lives 1519 00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:52,880 with survivors reporting these 1520 00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:55,359 experiences in such high numbers and 1521 00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,160 with such clarity and consistency they 1522 00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:00,400 are opening a window into another realm 1523 00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,319 of existence we can no longer ignore 1524 00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,960 okay i'll stop it right there i want to 1525 00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:08,799 break up some points people are going to 1526 00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:11,520 love or hate that video what i love 1527 00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,599 about it and that's why i've been kind 1528 00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,839 of pounding on this theme is i love when 1529 00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:18,000 you say certainty and 1530 00:55:23,109 --> 00:55:21,040 i i would maybe say it back to the hedge 1531 00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,119 fund it's a tradable event you know it's 1532 00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:25,599 like right 1533 00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,559 it's like 1534 00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:28,319 gotta gotta make that trade that's a 1535 00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:32,559 slam dunk because so much of the stuff 1536 00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,880 well so many of the interviews that i i 1537 00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:37,280 do and and i love and respect you know 1538 00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:38,240 so many people who have different 1539 00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,079 perspectives i just interviewed dr dean 1540 00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,480 ray i love dean rayden you know he's the 1541 00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:44,160 one who's falsified the 1542 00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,760 the crazy 1543 00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:47,760 soulless you're a biological robot 1544 00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,079 consciousness isn't real kind of thing 1545 00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:51,760 but he doesn't get it he doesn't he 1546 00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:55,920 can't cross the rubicon he can't say 1547 00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,480 well yeah it's obvious now just like 1548 00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:00,559 you're doing and just say well look 1549 00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:02,720 this is what we know and 1550 00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:05,200 we know that when the heart stops the 1551 00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,760 brain goes flatline people wait a minute 1552 00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:09,440 wait a minute did you see the michigan 1553 00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:11,200 study with the rats where there was this 1554 00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:14,160 burst did you guys yeah i saw it still 1555 00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:16,160 i'm trading on this on this thing over 1556 00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:20,799 here because we got 60 years of eeg data 1557 00:56:23,349 --> 00:56:21,599 with 1558 00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:23,359 right rats that have died and people 1559 00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,040 that have died and dogs that have died 1560 00:56:29,349 --> 00:56:28,079 and we know there's no eeg activity you 1561 00:56:31,510 --> 00:56:29,359 know when this and this happens 1562 00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:31,520 physiologically but wait a minute what 1563 00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,680 do you what do you mean what about my 1564 00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:35,280 the news study that just came out did 1565 00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:37,280 you see that put the gamble and it's 1566 00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,960 like bro 1567 00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:40,640 what are you trying to do you're just 1568 00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:41,760 trying to 1569 00:56:46,230 --> 00:56:43,520 develop something to support your 1570 00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:46,240 existing belief system i get that that's 1571 00:56:50,789 --> 00:56:48,720 fine remember walmart called they want 1572 00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,799 you back for the night shift uh by the 1573 00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:52,880 way you can see me i'll be out on 1574 00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:55,119 longboat key you know drinking a martini 1575 00:56:58,789 --> 00:56:56,799 you know it's like 1576 00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,799 it's a world view kind of thing that 1577 00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:01,119 just won't allow people to do that i 1578 00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:02,880 appreciate that and i may be being a 1579 00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:04,079 little bit too 1580 00:57:08,549 --> 00:57:06,799 flippant but you you lay down in very 1581 00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:08,559 concrete terms 1582 00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,040 what this is about in terms of we kind 1583 00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:13,680 of had an inkling that this was real 1584 00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:16,799 because it's been repeated over and over 1585 00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,160 to us by all these different wisdom 1586 00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:20,799 traditions and now we have 1587 00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:22,640 i love how you put the scientific 1588 00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:24,640 wrinkle thing you know it's it's a 1589 00:57:29,910 --> 00:57:28,000 wrinkle we don't know exactly why it's 1590 00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:29,920 coming through back to your metaphor 1591 00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:31,440 thing i don't know if i don't know if 1592 00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:33,040 it's a metaphor i don't know if these 1593 00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:35,359 experiences are being relayed back to us 1594 00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:38,640 metaphorically i don't know but i know 1595 00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:41,359 that the patterns that you're seeing 1596 00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:44,160 are undeniable the data just speaks 1597 00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:47,200 clearly of them and we have to process 1598 00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:48,079 them 1599 00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,559 and decide whether to get up in the 1600 00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:55,040 morning and live as if the data says 1601 00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:57,520 make the trade and there is more or to 1602 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:00,720 decide not to 1603 00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:03,760 the trade metaphor i was going to say if 1604 00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,200 if i had the kind of data that i i spent 1605 00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:08,880 oh my gosh 1606 00:58:12,470 --> 00:58:10,480 i don't know six months seven months 1607 00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:12,480 going through these things if i had that 1608 00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:14,640 kind of data i and i could create a 1609 00:58:20,549 --> 00:58:17,200 trading program that would be infallible 1610 00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:20,559 like the data was is that strong and so 1611 00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:22,480 yeah you have that confidence of you 1612 00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,799 know this is what it is you know 1613 00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:26,799 statistical significance you run these 1614 00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:28,079 kind of numbers 1615 00:58:34,230 --> 00:58:31,680 you know it's way beyond statistically 1616 00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:34,240 you know rel it is what it is i mean you 1617 00:58:37,030 --> 00:58:35,280 know 1618 00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:37,040 when you get that kind of data that 1619 00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:38,799 strong you know 1620 00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:39,839 it's now 1621 00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:41,680 much much more on on the person who 1622 00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:43,440 doesn't believe it to come up with 1623 00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:44,559 something and 1624 00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:46,000 i don't like to spend so much time on 1625 00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:48,799 the people that knock it down because 1626 00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:51,920 i i wouldn't give them air so much air 1627 00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:54,079 time just because they haven't done 1628 00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:56,799 their research they essentially say hey 1629 00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:59,119 you know this this isn't true but it's 1630 00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:00,960 like but the heavens on their own 1631 00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,040 perspective or retrospective studies 1632 00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:05,520 they haven't they don't they don't have 1633 00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:06,400 um 1634 00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,599 they don't have i don't say they don't 1635 00:59:11,190 --> 00:59:09,359 have a leg to stand on but it's it's 1636 00:59:14,549 --> 00:59:11,200 somewhat intellectually 1637 00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:14,559 lazy the what they've done and the very 1638 00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:17,520 simple thing well first of all 1639 00:59:21,510 --> 00:59:19,119 and i won't spend too much time on it 1640 00:59:23,190 --> 00:59:21,520 because i don't like to you know knock 1641 00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:23,200 it down because to me it's it's not 1642 00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:25,200 really a conversation but 1643 00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:26,799 you won't find 1644 00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:27,680 these 1645 00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:30,000 skeptics and i mean skeptics in a 1646 00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:31,200 negative way where they're not 1647 00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:33,280 open-minded skeptics 1648 00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:35,760 they haven't had an nde so i mean maybe 1649 00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:38,400 there are those that exist but i haven't 1650 00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:41,119 heard one that has had a verified you 1651 00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:44,720 know clinical death that it's verified 1652 00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:46,160 the other you know simple things like 1653 00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:49,200 the dmt example that they speak of 1654 00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:52,160 i went to uh peru a couple of few years 1655 00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,319 ago and i spent some time with the 1656 00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:56,240 shaman there and you know went through 1657 01:00:01,589 --> 00:59:58,559 seven ayahuasca ceremonies which is all 1658 01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:01,599 about dmt and i took it at 1659 01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,319 all different types of doses and 1660 01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,160 i can tell you with great certainty that 1661 01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:08,000 that at whatever level you want to talk 1662 01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:09,680 about is nothing 1663 01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:11,760 no i mean you can say there are bits and 1664 01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:13,920 pieces just like you can say dreams can 1665 01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:16,240 be interpreted in certain bits and 1666 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,520 pieces but but this is not dmt 1667 01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:21,359 and and as far as dreams go it's very 1668 01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:24,400 interesting because carl jung had a very 1669 01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,240 profound near-death experience and in 1670 01:00:30,950 --> 01:00:28,799 his autobiography he says you know 1671 01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:30,960 these these the near-death experience is 1672 01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:33,280 not this is nothing like a dream this is 1673 01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,920 more real than real um 1674 01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:37,359 you know these are things you don't 1675 01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:39,440 forget when they describe things like 1676 01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:42,079 time past present and future time kind 1677 01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:45,440 of bends a little bit in in an ayahuasca 1678 01:00:49,510 --> 01:00:47,200 ceremony but 1679 01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:49,520 you can't describe it in the same way 1680 01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:52,000 you'll remember very profound 1681 01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:54,720 experiences but small pieces 1682 01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,799 and if you look at um 1683 01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:58,960 what's really interesting in in these 1684 01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:00,960 near-death experiences that i came 1685 01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:02,880 across which i've heard about is 1686 01:01:09,109 --> 01:01:06,079 i never heard of anyone that ran into 1687 01:01:11,589 --> 01:01:09,119 someone that was living it was always 1688 01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:11,599 somebody that would had passed away 1689 01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:13,599 that's completely consistent i mean 1690 01:01:18,309 --> 01:01:16,400 across the board whereas in an ayahuasca 1691 01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:18,319 ceremony probably more than half the 1692 01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:21,040 people you experience are in that realm 1693 01:01:25,430 --> 01:01:22,559 are people that are living and part of 1694 01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,440 your life and the mythic imagery is very 1695 01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:27,040 very different so there's there's all 1696 01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:28,960 that kind of stuff going on 1697 01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:31,200 i hear you on one hand on the other hand 1698 01:01:36,309 --> 01:01:34,400 i think i i pull up on that a little bit 1699 01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:36,319 you know i just had a terrific interview 1700 01:01:41,750 --> 01:01:39,119 with a guy named william peters and he's 1701 01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:41,760 probably one of the most 1702 01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:43,280 well-known 1703 01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:45,599 researchers of shared death experience 1704 01:01:49,190 --> 01:01:47,599 along with raymond moody raymond moody 1705 01:01:51,510 --> 01:01:49,200 was really the first guy to write about 1706 01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,520 this and talk about it again rim and 1707 01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:54,240 midi great great work that he's done 1708 01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:56,400 but the shared death experience is truly 1709 01:02:02,150 --> 01:01:59,119 truly unique from a 1710 01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:02,160 scientific or kind of hedge fund traitor 1711 01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:05,280 scientific perspective it's it's 1712 01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:08,559 even more convincing or compelling data 1713 01:02:12,309 --> 01:02:10,799 because you have living people who you 1714 01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:12,319 know didn't even know each other and 1715 01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:15,200 were in the room and saw the same thing 1716 01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:17,920 happen saw the light come down saw the 1717 01:02:22,630 --> 01:02:20,559 the being saw the person you know like 1718 01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:22,640 go through a terminal lucidity event you 1719 01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,319 know where they were dead you know and 1720 01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:26,000 now they come alive and they're doing it 1721 01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:28,880 so there are different ways to to look 1722 01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:30,240 at this thing 1723 01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:33,359 yeah yeah the the the tricky thing about 1724 01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:36,160 it though is that 1725 01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:38,880 the best that i can tell from this what 1726 01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,760 we're consistently being confronted with 1727 01:02:44,789 --> 01:02:43,599 is something you mentioned just kind of 1728 01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,799 in passing 1729 01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:46,559 and you definitely mentioned not in 1730 01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:47,920 passing in the book you talk about it 1731 01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:50,160 quite a great quite a bit the crossover 1732 01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,799 experience is the book again 1733 01:02:59,349 --> 01:02:54,640 realer than real 1734 01:03:03,349 --> 01:02:59,359 is what this experience and the extended 1735 01:03:05,750 --> 01:03:03,359 consciousness is consistently reported 1736 01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:05,760 it kind of offers a tricky 1737 01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:08,000 catch-22 1738 01:03:13,589 --> 01:03:10,400 we're talking about something 1739 01:03:15,349 --> 01:03:13,599 in this lesser reality so in a way we 1740 01:03:18,150 --> 01:03:15,359 have to be kind of on guard that 1741 01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:18,160 everything we're saying is 1742 01:03:23,829 --> 01:03:21,680 less real than the reality and i think 1743 01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:23,839 that's a a cautionary 1744 01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:25,760 tale i the the other thing that i think 1745 01:03:28,710 --> 01:03:27,280 really comes through in the shared death 1746 01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,720 experience 1747 01:03:32,390 --> 01:03:30,480 that is also 1748 01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:32,400 throughout your book 1749 01:03:35,829 --> 01:03:34,160 is that 1750 01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:35,839 we don't know what that term 1751 01:03:41,190 --> 01:03:38,640 metaphorical means we don't know if this 1752 01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:41,200 experience is being served up uniquely 1753 01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:42,480 for us 1754 01:03:47,430 --> 01:03:44,960 or if it's as you alluded to 1755 01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:47,440 metaphorical across culture if it's for 1756 01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:49,599 everyone in our tribe everyone in our 1757 01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,720 family everyone in the world everyone in 1758 01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:54,319 all the other worlds 1759 01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:57,119 we don't know what that necessarily 1760 01:04:01,589 --> 01:03:59,039 means and there's 1761 01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:01,599 to a certain extent and this is what i 1762 01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:03,760 really appreciate what you're helping us 1763 01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:04,960 break through 1764 01:04:07,109 --> 01:04:05,760 is 1765 01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:07,119 those to a certain extent are 1766 01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:10,240 unanswerable questions and what you do 1767 01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:11,039 so 1768 01:04:15,910 --> 01:04:13,280 beautifully in the book is 1769 01:04:17,829 --> 01:04:15,920 you allow those questions to remain and 1770 01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:17,839 to come through in the story but then 1771 01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:19,760 you also just kind of pull back and go 1772 01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:23,200 okay but let's check this we do know 1773 01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:27,119 this right we do know that survival is 1774 01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:30,079 just the reality we have to accept that 1775 01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:31,520 or we're just 1776 01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:34,319 completely kind of whiffing on the data 1777 01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,240 that's right in our face and that's a 1778 01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:38,400 very valuable valuable 1779 01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:41,599 place to be because as we know and as 1780 01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:44,160 you talked about in your life experience 1781 01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,319 a lot of people can't get there i mean 1782 01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,000 you got there but a lot of people spend 1783 01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:50,240 their whole life and never get there 1784 01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:52,640 are still afraid of death are still 1785 01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:55,520 deeply in grief because they're there 1786 01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:56,640 they can't 1787 01:05:01,910 --> 01:04:59,520 fundamentally understand this or as we 1788 01:05:04,789 --> 01:05:01,920 see and i'm much more conspiratorial 1789 01:05:06,549 --> 01:05:04,799 probably than you are but people are 1790 01:05:09,910 --> 01:05:06,559 you know driven to 1791 01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:09,920 kind of very very unhealthy control and 1792 01:05:14,789 --> 01:05:11,680 domination things 1793 01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:14,799 on a massive scale because 1794 01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:17,039 they don't want to deal with 1795 01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:19,280 death or they're into some kind of 1796 01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:20,799 transhumanism 1797 01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:22,960 kind of thing just as an escape from 1798 01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:24,079 death so 1799 01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:25,280 there's 1800 01:05:30,870 --> 01:05:27,280 the metaphor thing 1801 01:05:33,430 --> 01:05:30,880 is tricky and the greater reality thing 1802 01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:33,440 is tricky what do you think about those 1803 01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:35,680 two things 1804 01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:37,920 well yeah the metaphor 1805 01:05:42,309 --> 01:05:39,839 is tricky and it's really the first 1806 01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,319 thing i stumbled on uh 1807 01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:44,799 whatever 25 30 years ago when i started 1808 01:05:47,589 --> 01:05:45,680 to hear 1809 01:05:49,910 --> 01:05:47,599 joseph campbell speak but when he 1810 01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:49,920 started speaking i would say that it was 1811 01:05:54,549 --> 01:05:51,839 more real than real it was more real 1812 01:05:57,109 --> 01:05:54,559 than anything i had heard before because 1813 01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:57,119 when he started speaking of metaphor and 1814 01:06:00,309 --> 01:05:59,599 speaking metaphor it 1815 01:06:07,829 --> 01:06:00,319 it 1816 01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:07,839 the whole course of my life 1817 01:06:10,150 --> 01:06:08,720 so 1818 01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:10,160 um 1819 01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:11,680 that's metaphor that's the power of 1820 01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:14,079 metaphor the great teachers the great 1821 01:06:17,109 --> 01:06:15,200 you know 1822 01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,119 religious figures of all and say not 1823 01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:18,960 traditional you know institutionalized 1824 01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:20,160 religion but 1825 01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:21,760 people that have had the most sway over 1826 01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:23,440 time 1827 01:06:27,190 --> 01:06:24,960 are the ones that are able to 1828 01:06:28,950 --> 01:06:27,200 communicate at that level because to the 1829 01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:28,960 receiver it is 1830 01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:31,920 more real than real as as much as we can 1831 01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:34,000 experience that in this realm because it 1832 01:06:39,990 --> 01:06:36,880 speaks to them exactly where they are 1833 01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:40,000 but metaphor is tricky because 1834 01:06:46,150 --> 01:06:43,520 i think we we don't really 1835 01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:46,160 well i don't think we know how to fully 1836 01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:49,039 um articulate it in the west like what 1837 01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:49,920 is 1838 01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,319 a metaphor how do you even 1839 01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:54,160 how do you even know to look for one you 1840 01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:55,920 know when you're watching star wars i 1841 01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:58,880 mean star wars george lucas was friends 1842 01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:01,520 with joseph campbell in fact one of the 1843 01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:03,839 bill moyers episodes in that series was 1844 01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:06,720 filmed at skywalker ranch which he was a 1845 01:07:10,789 --> 01:07:09,280 huge fan and and that really informed 1846 01:07:13,029 --> 01:07:10,799 and and 1847 01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:13,039 inspired a lot of the whole series star 1848 01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:14,880 wars now when the average person is 1849 01:07:17,910 --> 01:07:16,319 sitting there watching star wars i 1850 01:07:20,630 --> 01:07:17,920 remember when i was a kid the first one 1851 01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:20,640 came out i mean it blew my mind that was 1852 01:07:24,150 --> 01:07:22,480 the first film like that but it was also 1853 01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:24,160 the story and 1854 01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:25,200 um 1855 01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:27,119 but the average person is like they 1856 01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:28,799 don't understand that this is you know 1857 01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,039 there's it's mythic okay now it's a 1858 01:07:35,190 --> 01:07:33,039 spaceship instead of the horse like 1859 01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:35,200 parsifal and you know quest for the 1860 01:07:38,789 --> 01:07:36,960 grail but these streets 1861 01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:38,799 journey exactly 1862 01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,240 so 1863 01:07:45,190 --> 01:07:42,880 we don't appreciate it we don't we don't 1864 01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:45,200 know how to tell story there you know we 1865 01:07:49,109 --> 01:07:46,240 don't 1866 01:07:50,549 --> 01:07:49,119 you look at these cultures that have 1867 01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:50,559 been able to hold together and it's 1868 01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:52,480 because they have community and 1869 01:07:57,349 --> 01:07:54,720 oftentimes it's also that they respect 1870 01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,359 the elders who have seen it you know 1871 01:08:00,630 --> 01:07:58,960 it's like when you look at the markets 1872 01:08:02,230 --> 01:08:00,640 if you try and create a program based on 1873 01:08:04,470 --> 01:08:02,240 what happens you know over the last six 1874 01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:04,480 months you're in trouble you have to go 1875 01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:05,359 back 1876 01:08:10,069 --> 01:08:07,680 50 years 100 years then see these 1877 01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:10,079 patterns and then it's like ah i see you 1878 01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,000 know you look at things from sixty 1879 01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:14,000 thousand feet and they look very very 1880 01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:16,080 different than when you're in the weeds 1881 01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:17,759 and i think that's what 1882 01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:20,400 in one sense also metaphor allows you to 1883 01:08:22,829 --> 01:08:21,279 do 1884 01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:22,839 is just to 1885 01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:24,880 experience uh 1886 01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:27,920 you know a concept a story that you know 1887 01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:30,960 it it it hits you at your core it sneaks 1888 01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:33,040 past your defenses you don't know how to 1889 01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,199 stop it that's what happens also with 1890 01:08:38,709 --> 01:08:37,520 humor that's what i love about satire 1891 01:08:40,709 --> 01:08:38,719 you know some of these shows like the 1892 01:08:42,550 --> 01:08:40,719 daily show the the 1893 01:08:44,229 --> 01:08:42,560 i'm gonna go off on a tangent but that 1894 01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:44,239 the average person watching the daily 1895 01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,679 show back in the day with jon stewart 1896 01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:47,279 were more informed than people that were 1897 01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,120 watching cnn msnbc fox news and it's 1898 01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:53,759 because that humor it like opens people 1899 01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:56,239 up and the truth can get in and they 1900 01:09:00,709 --> 01:08:58,799 feel it they get it they sense it and 1901 01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:00,719 the same thing happens obviously with 1902 01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:03,199 metaphor so i think it's massively 1903 01:09:09,110 --> 01:09:05,520 important but you know we're in a 1904 01:09:10,950 --> 01:09:09,120 culture that it's just noise everywhere 1905 01:09:13,349 --> 01:09:10,960 it's noise and everything has been 1906 01:09:15,430 --> 01:09:13,359 broken down into such little bites you 1907 01:09:17,110 --> 01:09:15,440 know and the spinning the phone and 1908 01:09:22,550 --> 01:09:17,120 small images and everything's getting 1909 01:09:28,950 --> 01:09:23,349 i mean 1910 01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:28,960 into my other world bill moyers 1911 01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,799 what was his job 1912 01:09:34,789 --> 01:09:31,759 oh 1913 01:09:37,030 --> 01:09:34,799 press secretary for lbj 1914 01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:37,040 what role did he play in 1915 01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:38,880 jfk thing 1916 01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:41,120 interesting why is he on his hero's 1917 01:09:46,309 --> 01:09:43,920 journey maybe to make amends for 1918 01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:46,319 some of the stuff that he did i don't 1919 01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:49,440 know just speculating but this is this 1920 01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:52,159 is all over the place and i think it's 1921 01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:53,359 particularly 1922 01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:54,960 important because 1923 01:09:58,229 --> 01:09:56,640 that's what i was 1924 01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:58,239 one embracing about what you're saying 1925 01:10:02,630 --> 01:09:59,840 but also pushing back on what you're 1926 01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:02,640 saying i think there's a bunch of people 1927 01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:04,400 that want to 1928 01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:07,679 exploit the metaphorical reality of 1929 01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:10,560 everything and shape it into their 1930 01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:11,840 narrative like 1931 01:10:16,950 --> 01:10:14,159 oh you know this is the metaphor for 1932 01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:16,960 what's going on right now and yet we're 1933 01:10:19,830 --> 01:10:18,239 we're in 1934 01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:19,840 the other thing i guess 1935 01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:21,040 and 1936 01:10:24,709 --> 01:10:22,400 i get excited 1937 01:10:27,669 --> 01:10:24,719 so and i think that also relates to this 1938 01:10:29,990 --> 01:10:27,679 whole question of how much is our 1939 01:10:32,149 --> 01:10:30,000 narrative being controlled and served up 1940 01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:32,159 to us in a way that we can look back at 1941 01:10:36,550 --> 01:10:35,280 history and go oh my gosh yeah we really 1942 01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:36,560 were told 1943 01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,360 a story we were really sold a narrative 1944 01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:42,000 we were sold a myth our one of our great 1945 01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:44,800 myths in our country is life liberty and 1946 01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:47,920 pursuit of happiness that's an awesome 1947 01:10:52,310 --> 01:10:49,600 awesome myth 1948 01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:52,320 but those guys that signed that document 1949 01:10:57,830 --> 01:10:54,880 were enslaving in the most 1950 01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:57,840 unbelievably inhumane way millions and 1951 01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:00,719 millions of people and they found a way 1952 01:11:05,430 --> 01:11:02,880 to make that kind of fit inside their 1953 01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:05,440 world and then they enslaved him and 1954 01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,840 killed him and murdered him and raped 1955 01:11:10,310 --> 01:11:09,120 him and did all this stuff for a couple 1956 01:11:11,669 --> 01:11:10,320 hundred years 1957 01:11:13,189 --> 01:11:11,679 then they gave him a couple years off 1958 01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,199 and then they did it for another 100 1959 01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,520 years and that is our reality i'm not 1960 01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:17,040 saying i hold any 1961 01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:19,199 guilt or i'm just kind of stepping back 1962 01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:20,320 and saying 1963 01:11:25,590 --> 01:11:22,880 look at that pattern that is but is it 1964 01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:25,600 not true that our story 1965 01:11:28,390 --> 01:11:27,520 our metaphor 1966 01:11:31,030 --> 01:11:28,400 our 1967 01:11:32,950 --> 01:11:31,040 narrative is still a powerful powerful 1968 01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:32,960 narrative because 1969 01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:35,120 our inalienable rights 1970 01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:38,719 are truly our rights they always were 1971 01:11:41,750 --> 01:11:40,080 and whether they're written on a piece 1972 01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,760 of paper or whether they're not written 1973 01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:44,159 on a piece of paper that's what makes 1974 01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:45,840 them what they are 1975 01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:46,800 so 1976 01:11:52,550 --> 01:11:49,600 i think this thing about narrative 1977 01:11:54,790 --> 01:11:52,560 is super tricky and we're certainly 1978 01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:54,800 living in a time that a lot of people 1979 01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,880 are trying to control that narrative but 1980 01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:58,800 the one question i have for you 1981 01:12:03,590 --> 01:12:00,719 and i guess it would also be kind of a 1982 01:12:05,189 --> 01:12:03,600 skeptical moment with the book is 1983 01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:05,199 do you think we're living in a special 1984 01:12:11,030 --> 01:12:08,159 time because when we talk about the 1985 01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:11,040 medical link with near-death experience 1986 01:12:15,510 --> 01:12:13,120 and how there seem to be so many more 1987 01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:15,520 reported now and maybe that's because 1988 01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:17,040 we've learned to bring people back 1989 01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:19,760 through resuscitation it all points to 1990 01:12:23,750 --> 01:12:22,960 this we are living in a special time i'm 1991 01:12:25,270 --> 01:12:23,760 not 1992 01:12:26,470 --> 01:12:25,280 my tone suggests that i'm totally 1993 01:12:28,470 --> 01:12:26,480 dismissing that i don't want to be 1994 01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:28,480 totally dismissive of it but i don't 1995 01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:30,640 want to treat it as a fundamental 1996 01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:32,320 unquestionable truth 1997 01:12:37,350 --> 01:12:33,760 what do you think about what do you 1998 01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:38,550 you know i 1999 01:12:44,229 --> 01:12:41,600 i'm also extremely skeptical i know that 2000 01:12:45,750 --> 01:12:44,239 so often people think they're living you 2001 01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,760 know in the most 2002 01:12:49,430 --> 01:12:47,679 interesting inflection moment 2003 01:12:50,950 --> 01:12:49,440 something's going to happen 2004 01:13:09,990 --> 01:12:50,960 i 2005 01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:10,000 are macro patterns that take about 70 2006 01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,560 years and they continue to happen every 2007 01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:14,400 70 years you can go back in time to the 2008 01:13:19,350 --> 01:13:15,920 renaissance and these types of things 2009 01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:19,360 but now with the markets we can actually 2010 01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:21,520 quantify this we never had a how do you 2011 01:13:26,390 --> 01:13:23,280 quantify this you know hundreds of years 2012 01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:26,400 ago but over the last 150 plus years we 2013 01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:27,520 have these 2014 01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:30,400 these patterns that are uh that measure 2015 01:13:33,030 --> 01:13:32,000 human emotion and you find them in the 2016 01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,040 charts 2017 01:13:37,110 --> 01:13:34,960 and one of these patterns these super 2018 01:13:39,669 --> 01:13:37,120 patterns that you see in the markets is 2019 01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:39,679 coming to a head and i will say as 2020 01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:41,520 somebody who's watched every tick of the 2021 01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:44,400 market for 36 years 2022 01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:47,120 that i've never seen anything like what 2023 01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,719 i've seen in the markets that's 2024 01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:50,400 happening right now 2025 01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:51,199 and 2026 01:13:53,910 --> 01:13:52,320 you know 2027 01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:53,920 there's there's good and bad to that one 2028 01:13:59,430 --> 01:13:56,320 is that i think we're going to see 2029 01:14:01,990 --> 01:13:59,440 an epic collapse in in the economic 2030 01:14:04,390 --> 01:14:02,000 system globally and you know that's a 2031 01:14:07,270 --> 01:14:04,400 whole show in itself but it's you know 2032 01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:07,280 you can't convince me otherwise because 2033 01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:09,679 i just know the stuff from in my bones 2034 01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:12,239 because i i've lived it for so long but 2035 01:14:15,990 --> 01:14:13,679 there's so many things that are 2036 01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:16,000 happening right now cross currents and 2037 01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:18,480 you know with currencies and and uh you 2038 01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:20,640 know what the fed has done with interest 2039 01:14:24,390 --> 01:14:22,800 rates and how i mean we've bought we've 2040 01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:24,400 basically painted ourselves into a 2041 01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:25,920 corner and we've kicked the can down the 2042 01:14:30,070 --> 01:14:28,320 road too far it's over so it's we're 2043 01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:30,080 like the coyote that's now going over 2044 01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:31,840 the edge and doesn't realize there's 2045 01:14:37,270 --> 01:14:34,080 nothing there anymore there's no legs 2046 01:14:38,709 --> 01:14:37,280 under this market it's uh it's over so i 2047 01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:38,719 think that's happening 2048 01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:40,960 if you want to talk about a sign that 2049 01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:43,280 has changed now 2050 01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:44,719 and and i'm not 2051 01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:46,960 i've always felt i mean you'd have again 2052 01:14:50,390 --> 01:14:48,719 statistically you want to tell me that 2053 01:14:52,229 --> 01:14:50,400 there's no you know intelligent life in 2054 01:14:53,110 --> 01:14:52,239 the universe good luck convincing me 2055 01:14:55,110 --> 01:14:53,120 that 2056 01:14:57,189 --> 01:14:55,120 well you know there have been signs for 2057 01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:57,199 a very long time and i was you know i've 2058 01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,560 always been interested and i always 2059 01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:00,640 believed it but the government the 2060 01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:03,120 defense department came out what was it 2061 01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:05,040 seven months ago and laid out you know 2062 01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,480 there was it was a 2063 01:15:11,270 --> 01:15:08,320 very in-depth article by a very 2064 01:15:13,669 --> 01:15:11,280 reputable woman who um 2065 01:15:15,990 --> 01:15:13,679 who got a hold of footage from the uh 2066 01:15:18,550 --> 01:15:16,000 from from people that were on the you 2067 01:15:20,709 --> 01:15:18,560 know the navy carriers fighter pilots 2068 01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:20,719 etc i'm sure everybody's kind of seen 2069 01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:22,400 this or heard about it whether they it's 2070 01:15:27,510 --> 01:15:24,480 really registered is hard to say but 2071 01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:27,520 okay so there are literally ufos flying 2072 01:15:31,350 --> 01:15:28,560 around 2073 01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:31,360 on the planet here now 2074 01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:32,320 and 2075 01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:36,000 there are two stories that are 2076 01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:37,760 mind-blowing that could be happening one 2077 01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,120 would be the near-death experience 2078 01:15:43,830 --> 01:15:41,600 obviously the other is is is life from 2079 01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:43,840 another you know planet or dimension or 2080 01:15:47,830 --> 01:15:45,280 wherever they're coming from but they're 2081 01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:47,840 here right now and what blows my mind is 2082 01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:48,800 nobody 2083 01:15:53,350 --> 01:15:51,120 really made much of it it came and it 2084 01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:53,360 went and 2085 01:15:59,030 --> 01:15:54,239 so 2086 01:16:00,790 --> 01:15:59,040 just the way things are feeling i mean 2087 01:16:02,390 --> 01:16:00,800 people probably feel things now that 2088 01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:02,400 this something is not 2089 01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:04,800 right something is not working in this 2090 01:16:10,229 --> 01:16:06,800 whole coveted thing and how that's you 2091 01:16:12,229 --> 01:16:10,239 know changing so much of you know how we 2092 01:16:14,070 --> 01:16:12,239 interact with each other and and the 2093 01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:14,080 surveillance society and all this kind 2094 01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:15,840 of stuff yeah but dj i mean we just 2095 01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:18,080 don't know how much of that is 2096 01:16:23,830 --> 01:16:21,199 engineered and the impending economic 2097 01:16:25,590 --> 01:16:23,840 collapse we don't know a lot of people 2098 01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:25,600 would point to 2099 01:16:31,350 --> 01:16:28,560 that being one of the goals of the 2100 01:16:33,430 --> 01:16:31,360 current project right and you could even 2101 01:16:35,669 --> 01:16:33,440 tie it if you really wanted to go there 2102 01:16:38,430 --> 01:16:35,679 to this larger 2103 01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:38,440 world global thing you know from a 2104 01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:40,800 interplanetary perspective does it 2105 01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:43,679 really make sense to have 146 different 2106 01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:46,560 actors on the stage doing that or do you 2107 01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:48,239 somehow want to bring all those together 2108 01:16:54,070 --> 01:16:50,800 that's kind of putting a positive spin 2109 01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:54,080 on the new world order globalization but 2110 01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,280 even take the ufo thing it is extremely 2111 01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:59,280 extremely complicated and when you talk 2112 01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:01,199 about controlling the narrative 2113 01:17:05,030 --> 01:17:04,000 i mean like i take what you just say and 2114 01:17:06,870 --> 01:17:05,040 go 2115 01:17:09,590 --> 01:17:06,880 yeah but dj 2116 01:17:13,510 --> 01:17:09,600 but the real story here is they've been 2117 01:17:14,709 --> 01:17:13,520 lying their freaking ass off for 70 2118 01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:14,719 years 2119 01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:15,520 and 2120 01:17:17,910 --> 01:17:16,880 not only that but they've been 2121 01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:17,920 threatening 2122 01:17:22,229 --> 01:17:20,320 killing probably we can't totally prove 2123 01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,239 it but definitely threatening 2124 01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:24,719 terrorizing driving people crazy getting 2125 01:17:28,870 --> 01:17:26,880 people to sign you know 2126 01:17:31,910 --> 01:17:28,880 do you death 2127 01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:31,920 death wish non-disclosure agreements and 2128 01:17:35,830 --> 01:17:33,760 only some of these guys have come out 2129 01:17:37,430 --> 01:17:35,840 these long-time 30-year air force guys 2130 01:17:40,390 --> 01:17:37,440 have come out and said yeah i was at the 2131 01:17:41,750 --> 01:17:40,400 nuclear silo this is what happened the 2132 01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:41,760 e.t came 2133 01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:45,120 ufo turned on all ten 2134 01:17:49,590 --> 01:17:47,440 yeah turned on all ten of the missiles 2135 01:17:50,950 --> 01:17:49,600 each one are independent because they 2136 01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:50,960 have to be independent that's like they 2137 01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:52,239 have their own power source their 2138 01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:53,679 independent control mechanism there's 2139 01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:56,000 supposed to be no way because otherwise 2140 01:18:00,550 --> 01:17:58,320 you know anyone could fly over with a 2141 01:18:02,709 --> 01:18:00,560 eme or a cosmic rays from the sun could 2142 01:18:04,310 --> 01:18:02,719 shut them up no we've we thought about 2143 01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:04,320 that december they turned them all on 2144 01:18:08,630 --> 01:18:06,719 then you go over to the ukraine and 2145 01:18:10,870 --> 01:18:08,640 back when ukraine was part of the soviet 2146 01:18:12,550 --> 01:18:10,880 union and the war is there so we don't 2147 01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:12,560 know any of this but the wall comes down 2148 01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:13,520 we get the 2149 01:18:16,390 --> 01:18:15,679 oh yeah that happened over here too but 2150 01:18:20,470 --> 01:18:16,400 when 2151 01:18:22,630 --> 01:18:20,480 e.t ufo flew over he turned them all on 2152 01:18:25,350 --> 01:18:22,640 and we were like 15 seconds before 2153 01:18:27,510 --> 01:18:25,360 launch and then turned him off but then 2154 01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:27,520 when you talk to the real 2155 01:18:31,270 --> 01:18:29,120 top dog like 2156 01:18:33,430 --> 01:18:31,280 robert hastings who i did an email 2157 01:18:35,270 --> 01:18:33,440 interview with who's study this more 2158 01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:35,280 thoroughly than anyone else and 2159 01:18:40,070 --> 01:18:38,159 completely puts to rest any people who 2160 01:18:42,070 --> 01:18:40,080 are uncomfortable ufos oh it's 2161 01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:42,080 government or doesn't it no it's been 2162 01:18:45,750 --> 01:18:43,280 like this 2163 01:18:47,189 --> 01:18:45,760 this ufo connection is 2164 01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:47,199 the 2165 01:18:51,510 --> 01:18:49,679 overwhelming evidence that this is real 2166 01:18:53,350 --> 01:18:51,520 along with the cross culture cross time 2167 01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,360 thing you know like i interviewed rd6 2168 01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:55,440 killer clark but here's the point and 2169 01:18:59,189 --> 01:18:57,600 i've never made this point 2170 01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:59,199 on the show i want to and here's an 2171 01:19:03,510 --> 01:19:00,800 opportunity 2172 01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:03,520 when you listen really carefully 2173 01:19:08,709 --> 01:19:06,000 to what robert hastings says 2174 01:19:11,350 --> 01:19:08,719 he has changed his interpretation 2175 01:19:13,270 --> 01:19:11,360 the narrative of that what he used to 2176 01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:13,280 say is 2177 01:19:17,350 --> 01:19:14,400 e.t 2178 01:19:19,669 --> 01:19:17,360 was doing a shot across the bow 2179 01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:19,679 e.t was saying look 2180 01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:21,760 these nuclear weapons you're playing 2181 01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:23,679 with be careful 2182 01:19:29,110 --> 01:19:26,480 you could destroy this planet 2183 01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:29,120 but you know what he says now 2184 01:19:32,550 --> 01:19:30,320 he says 2185 01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:32,560 yeah that maybe 2186 01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:34,560 but maybe it's in 2187 01:19:39,750 --> 01:19:37,440 it's of a mutual interest 2188 01:19:41,189 --> 01:19:39,760 maybe it isn't this 2189 01:19:43,990 --> 01:19:41,199 big brother 2190 01:19:45,669 --> 01:19:44,000 god in the sky e.t wants to protect us 2191 01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:45,679 maybe he's like 2192 01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:47,920 bro you know i got a stake in this game 2193 01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:50,560 that you don't quite understand so keep 2194 01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:53,040 those things under wrap 2195 01:19:58,149 --> 01:19:55,280 there are so many different ways to 2196 01:20:00,790 --> 01:19:58,159 interpret this but the one way we cannot 2197 01:20:02,550 --> 01:20:00,800 interpret it is the narrative where 2198 01:20:04,550 --> 01:20:02,560 we're being given by the people who 2199 01:20:05,669 --> 01:20:04,560 released and i've had both of them on 2200 01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:05,679 the people who wrote the article in the 2201 01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:08,400 new york times uh leslie kane and ralph 2202 01:20:12,310 --> 01:20:10,320 blumenthal have both been on the show 2203 01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:12,320 have both done interviews and i'm like 2204 01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:15,280 come on you got to be kidding this 2205 01:20:20,790 --> 01:20:18,480 professional counter intelligence agent 2206 01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:20,800 lou elizondo 2207 01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:23,120 translate as professional liar for the 2208 01:20:26,709 --> 01:20:25,199 government but not that we we need you 2209 01:20:28,709 --> 01:20:26,719 know professional liars in the 2210 01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:28,719 government that's what spies do 2211 01:20:34,390 --> 01:20:31,440 but we're supposed to believe him after 2212 01:20:36,709 --> 01:20:34,400 70 years of completely lying about this 2213 01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:36,719 we're supposed to believe him in that 2214 01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:39,360 these none of this was classified 2215 01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:40,880 that's why he's not behind jail because 2216 01:20:45,990 --> 01:20:43,840 everyone else even takes a photo of 2217 01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:46,000 inside the submarine and the kid you 2218 01:20:50,149 --> 01:20:47,280 know inadvertently there's something in 2219 01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:50,159 the background he's in jail he's in the 2220 01:20:54,229 --> 01:20:52,400 brig you know but louis elizondo is out 2221 01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:54,239 doing interviews and you know what his 2222 01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:55,920 his message is 2223 01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:57,760 protect our airspace 2224 01:21:03,830 --> 01:21:00,560 this is a issue of national security i 2225 01:21:06,629 --> 01:21:03,840 mean this is such a concocted crafted 2226 01:21:08,550 --> 01:21:06,639 kind of spin of 2227 01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:08,560 et's here and you know what you need to 2228 01:21:13,910 --> 01:21:11,520 worry about is protecting our airspace 2229 01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:13,920 how does that make any sense to people 2230 01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:16,159 so i got a theory on that 2231 01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:18,000 actually 2232 01:21:20,709 --> 01:21:18,960 you know 2233 01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:20,719 when you look at things like i'll draw a 2234 01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:23,040 parallel here if you look at the way now 2235 01:21:28,629 --> 01:21:25,920 we're we're seeing the introduction of 2236 01:21:30,790 --> 01:21:28,639 psychedelics for psychological healing 2237 01:21:32,629 --> 01:21:30,800 particularly ptsd 2238 01:21:35,270 --> 01:21:32,639 these types of things they they started 2239 01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:35,280 using for veterans of the iraq war who 2240 01:21:41,110 --> 01:21:38,320 were coming back you know basket cases 2241 01:21:44,070 --> 01:21:41,120 and they started to show unbelievable 2242 01:21:46,870 --> 01:21:44,080 results using that in therapy and talk 2243 01:21:49,270 --> 01:21:46,880 therapy integration etc 2244 01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:49,280 once that happened and they were able to 2245 01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:51,360 essentially prove it that it helped the 2246 01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:52,960 veterans they had to start giving it to 2247 01:21:57,590 --> 01:21:55,360 the veterans and then these people i 2248 01:21:59,030 --> 01:21:57,600 forget his name any i forget his name 2249 01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:59,040 but they've been trying to get 2250 01:22:01,910 --> 01:22:00,400 essentially what the government's doing 2251 01:22:03,750 --> 01:22:01,920 now with the veterans they they were 2252 01:22:05,430 --> 01:22:03,760 trying they've been trying for 20 years 2253 01:22:08,149 --> 01:22:05,440 to be able to do this 2254 01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:08,159 and as soon as it became you know viable 2255 01:22:12,229 --> 01:22:10,320 for for them to do it for the veterans 2256 01:22:14,149 --> 01:22:12,239 all of a sudden we're starting to hear 2257 01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:14,159 you know that this is coming now it 2258 01:22:16,870 --> 01:22:16,080 started everywhere and it's because of 2259 01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:16,880 that 2260 01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:18,639 so when you start in my opinion when you 2261 01:22:22,629 --> 01:22:21,600 start i think louis zondo knows that 2262 01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:22,639 you know 2263 01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:24,719 there's no way that that these people 2264 01:22:28,229 --> 01:22:26,400 can continue to say in government hey 2265 01:22:30,629 --> 01:22:28,239 man this thing you know we can't tell 2266 01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:30,639 you or it doesn't exist or whatever but 2267 01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:32,320 the minute you say 2268 01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:35,040 this is a matter of national security 2269 01:22:37,669 --> 01:22:36,719 that these things could blow up our 2270 01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:37,679 shifts 2271 01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,840 now all these senators can't be they 2272 01:22:43,189 --> 01:22:41,679 can't piss it away and say wow you know 2273 01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:43,199 it's like dude do you understand they're 2274 01:22:46,709 --> 01:22:45,280 flying over our ships we have it on our 2275 01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,719 radar they're 2276 01:22:50,950 --> 01:22:48,719 flying circles around us they're a 2277 01:22:52,870 --> 01:22:50,960 danger in our airspace they're worse 2278 01:22:54,870 --> 01:22:52,880 they're worse than the russians now 2279 01:22:56,470 --> 01:22:54,880 these senators that always have to act 2280 01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:56,480 like hawks they 2281 01:22:59,830 --> 01:22:57,760 they're like hey you know what we're 2282 01:23:02,390 --> 01:22:59,840 gonna have to put some money that's my 2283 01:23:04,709 --> 01:23:02,400 my feeling is he's using that whole 2284 01:23:06,390 --> 01:23:04,719 military system against itself to be 2285 01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:06,400 able to put it on the map and say if you 2286 01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:07,600 don't do this 2287 01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:09,760 you're putting our troops at risk but 2288 01:23:15,590 --> 01:23:11,120 he's an agent 2289 01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:15,600 only thing that matters is the truth 2290 01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:18,840 it's back to the militant agnostic 2291 01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,800 alexa oh 2292 01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:22,560 that alerts me of a potential trading 2293 01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,760 signal oh cool okay okay i i don't want 2294 01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,440 it i don't clock so don't worry about it 2295 01:23:32,070 --> 01:23:29,600 oh okay okay so 2296 01:23:34,310 --> 01:23:32,080 you know i had uh richard dolan on the 2297 01:23:36,390 --> 01:23:34,320 show and i really respect richard dolan 2298 01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:36,400 a lot he's probably one of the 2299 01:23:41,189 --> 01:23:38,800 one of the most reliable 2300 01:23:43,189 --> 01:23:41,199 ufo researchers we've had he's published 2301 01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:43,199 amazing books and he kind of takes his 2302 01:23:47,430 --> 01:23:45,360 long-term historical perspective on it 2303 01:23:50,229 --> 01:23:47,440 he wrote a book a few years ago called 2304 01:23:52,149 --> 01:23:50,239 after disclosure and his 2305 01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:52,159 point and it was brilliant 2306 01:23:55,990 --> 01:23:53,600 at the time it turned out to be totally 2307 01:23:58,229 --> 01:23:56,000 not true was hey there will never be 2308 01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:58,239 disclosure because the questions will 2309 01:24:01,189 --> 01:24:00,239 never stop 2310 01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:01,199 well 2311 01:24:04,629 --> 01:24:02,400 we've had disclosure 2312 01:24:05,510 --> 01:24:04,639 and the questions never even started 2313 01:24:08,550 --> 01:24:05,520 we just 2314 01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:08,560 what is 2315 01:24:13,030 --> 01:24:10,320 it what did you say lou 2316 01:24:15,430 --> 01:24:13,040 oh it's protect our okay 2317 01:24:17,669 --> 01:24:15,440 what about richard doty 2318 01:24:21,030 --> 01:24:17,679 intelligence officer that 2319 01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:21,040 tortured paul benowitz into 2320 01:24:25,669 --> 01:24:23,360 going crazy with this orchestrated 2321 01:24:28,149 --> 01:24:25,679 misinformation disinformation campaign 2322 01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:28,159 that was so diabolical that you know you 2323 01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:30,560 can't when i had colonel john alexander 2324 01:24:34,790 --> 01:24:33,199 on the show he said if that's true then 2325 01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:34,800 that guy should be in leavenworth yeah 2326 01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:37,520 he should be in leavenworth we shouldn't 2327 01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:40,320 allow our military intelligence officers 2328 01:24:44,629 --> 01:24:41,760 to 2329 01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:44,639 run operations on american citizens 2330 01:24:48,629 --> 01:24:46,880 unknowingly because they're trying to 2331 01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:48,639 protect and try to do 2332 01:24:54,229 --> 01:24:51,040 the only thing that uh paul benowitz did 2333 01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:54,239 is he said hey guys i see the the lights 2334 01:24:58,070 --> 01:24:55,920 out on uh 2335 01:25:00,390 --> 01:24:58,080 kirkland and i just want you to be aware 2336 01:25:01,669 --> 01:25:00,400 of it you know so 2337 01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:01,679 and then they have this whole cover 2338 01:25:05,430 --> 01:25:03,600 story which is totally fake like this is 2339 01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:05,440 so deep into the ufo thing like two 2340 01:25:09,910 --> 01:25:07,199 people are gonna understand this the 2341 01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:09,920 cover story that they do the mirage man 2342 01:25:14,629 --> 01:25:12,960 a video movie that they make says oh 2343 01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:14,639 well you know what 2344 01:25:19,030 --> 01:25:17,679 what they were really trying to do is 2345 01:25:22,149 --> 01:25:19,040 hide the 2346 01:25:25,270 --> 01:25:22,159 laser and the advanced stealth bomber 2347 01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:25,280 [\h__\h] what they were doing is ufo 2348 01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:28,719 [\h__\h] either theirs or ours but the other 2349 01:25:33,350 --> 01:25:30,320 thing that they never reveal is that 2350 01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:33,360 kirkland has nukes which they didn't 2351 01:25:38,310 --> 01:25:35,440 tell anybody but now we know after the 2352 01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:38,320 fact kirkland had nukes there so this 2353 01:25:43,110 --> 01:25:40,800 story of deceit of lie of misinformation 2354 01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:43,120 disinformation has always been in play 2355 01:25:48,870 --> 01:25:45,600 so the only way to understand lou 2356 01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:48,880 elizondo is through that lens and the 2357 01:25:52,950 --> 01:25:50,080 way to the 2358 01:25:54,870 --> 01:25:52,960 no one asks those questions like 2359 01:25:56,310 --> 01:25:54,880 you're part of that organization what do 2360 01:25:58,950 --> 01:25:56,320 you think of 2361 01:26:01,430 --> 01:25:58,960 richard doty should he be in jail should 2362 01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:01,440 he have gone to jail you know or he says 2363 01:26:06,629 --> 01:26:04,239 like lou elizondo says you know it's not 2364 01:26:07,350 --> 01:26:06,639 my fault uh my superiors told me to do 2365 01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,360 that 2366 01:26:12,229 --> 01:26:09,840 who are your superiors let's bring them 2367 01:26:14,149 --> 01:26:12,239 out you know to whatever extent the the 2368 01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:14,159 who you said you fought to make these 2369 01:26:18,550 --> 01:26:16,480 disclos declassified 2370 01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:18,560 who classified them when you know i mean 2371 01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:20,080 it's just so 2372 01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:22,000 papers 2373 01:26:25,350 --> 01:26:23,760 yeah it's a dark 2374 01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:25,360 i think that you know i think one of the 2375 01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:27,199 reasons why there's 2376 01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:29,199 changes you know we're at that 2377 01:26:33,430 --> 01:26:31,040 inflection point is that 2378 01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:33,440 in in so many areas they're they're 2379 01:26:37,510 --> 01:26:35,600 losing control of the narrative 2380 01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:37,520 and you know i think a lot of that 2381 01:26:41,910 --> 01:26:38,960 i think that the the 2382 01:26:43,350 --> 01:26:41,920 positive thing in social media is you 2383 01:26:44,629 --> 01:26:43,360 know like if you look at what's going on 2384 01:26:46,790 --> 01:26:44,639 the people in russia they're getting 2385 01:26:48,390 --> 01:26:46,800 enough information through that some of 2386 01:26:49,990 --> 01:26:48,400 the people you know 2387 01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:50,000 really do understand what's happening 2388 01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:51,840 because they're the 2389 01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:54,000 the misinformation is insane 2390 01:26:57,750 --> 01:26:56,480 but they they really now run the risk of 2391 01:26:59,910 --> 01:26:57,760 um 2392 01:27:01,270 --> 01:26:59,920 you know of some type of internal 2393 01:27:02,790 --> 01:27:01,280 uprising i mean they'll knock it down 2394 01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:02,800 it'll get ugly but it's same thing is 2395 01:27:07,830 --> 01:27:05,440 happening in china so a lot of these at 2396 01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:07,840 the same time there's so much noise and 2397 01:27:12,790 --> 01:27:09,920 they're putting so much disinformation 2398 01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,800 inside of all of that information that 2399 01:27:16,470 --> 01:27:14,800 people are confused 2400 01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:16,480 and so nobody knows what the hell is 2401 01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:17,520 going on 2402 01:27:21,669 --> 01:27:19,920 but they're losing control of the 2403 01:27:23,430 --> 01:27:21,679 narrative but the best thing they can do 2404 01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:23,440 is just to confuse the [\h__\h] out of 2405 01:27:26,870 --> 01:27:24,960 everybody and i think that's so much 2406 01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,880 what's going on i think they just don't 2407 01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:28,000 want people to know what the hell is 2408 01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:29,600 going on whether right or wrong it's 2409 01:27:34,229 --> 01:27:32,960 just noise it's become noise and so you 2410 01:27:35,990 --> 01:27:34,239 know 2411 01:27:38,070 --> 01:27:36,000 you see and that's 2412 01:27:39,750 --> 01:27:38,080 super interesting to me in a way it's 2413 01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:39,760 it's really really relevant to this 2414 01:27:44,229 --> 01:27:41,360 conversation in a way that a lot of 2415 01:27:45,830 --> 01:27:44,239 people don't see or 2416 01:27:48,149 --> 01:27:45,840 of course they don't because i have my 2417 01:27:49,189 --> 01:27:48,159 own unique interpretation of it but that 2418 01:27:51,430 --> 01:27:49,199 is that 2419 01:27:54,149 --> 01:27:51,440 what the near-death experience is really 2420 01:27:56,470 --> 01:27:54,159 about is bringing us to 2421 01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,480 the edge of the chasm and then we have 2422 01:28:01,830 --> 01:27:59,280 to choose to jump over or not jump over 2423 01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:01,840 and the chasm turns out to be 2424 01:28:06,790 --> 01:28:04,800 just barely a footstep it's like so easy 2425 01:28:08,950 --> 01:28:06,800 to jump over but a lot of people look 2426 01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:08,960 down and to them it looks like the grand 2427 01:28:13,590 --> 01:28:11,440 canyon and they can't jump over it and 2428 01:28:15,189 --> 01:28:13,600 the jump over point is 2429 01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:15,199 are you more 2430 01:28:22,629 --> 01:28:19,679 biological robot meaningless universe 2431 01:28:24,790 --> 01:28:22,639 are you connected to the light is there 2432 01:28:27,270 --> 01:28:24,800 a hierarchy of consciousness 2433 01:28:29,189 --> 01:28:27,280 is there right and wrong you knew that 2434 01:28:31,189 --> 01:28:29,199 when you were five years old and you put 2435 01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:31,199 that piece of candy in your pocket at 2436 01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:33,760 the dru at the corner store 2437 01:28:38,229 --> 01:28:36,239 of course you know that to be true 2438 01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:38,239 anything that makes you question that 2439 01:28:42,310 --> 01:28:40,960 anything that makes you question oh no i 2440 01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:42,320 don't have to worry about that because 2441 01:28:46,149 --> 01:28:44,800 i'm at a special time or the narrative 2442 01:28:48,229 --> 01:28:46,159 is this way that way 2443 01:28:50,790 --> 01:28:48,239 now it's really pretty easy 2444 01:28:52,709 --> 01:28:50,800 just choose the light keep choosing the 2445 01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:52,719 light over and over again 2446 01:28:56,470 --> 01:28:54,800 what your book the crossover experience 2447 01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:56,480 does is 2448 01:29:02,310 --> 01:28:59,280 give us more and more reasons to be 2449 01:29:06,149 --> 01:29:02,320 confident in that to make that a highly 2450 01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:06,159 actionable event to say is this science 2451 01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:09,360 actionable and for you to hold it and go 2452 01:29:13,430 --> 01:29:12,320 yep i can step over i am more i am 2453 01:29:15,669 --> 01:29:13,440 greater 2454 01:29:17,110 --> 01:29:15,679 and i feel confident in making that 2455 01:29:18,629 --> 01:29:17,120 decision that's what i think it's all 2456 01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:18,639 about to me 2457 01:29:23,990 --> 01:29:20,080 yeah 2458 01:29:26,310 --> 01:29:24,000 handed me that book after you know my 2459 01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:26,320 son had passed like right after it 2460 01:29:30,149 --> 01:29:27,199 man 2461 01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:30,159 that would have helped me a lot and 2462 01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:33,760 that's why i created this it's you know 2463 01:29:36,950 --> 01:29:35,040 the things that i've done like when i 2464 01:29:38,229 --> 01:29:36,960 was i did the film on racism it was 2465 01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:38,239 something i was struggling with 2466 01:29:42,629 --> 01:29:40,639 personally and it helped me to kind of 2467 01:29:44,149 --> 01:29:42,639 crystallize what i really believed and 2468 01:29:46,390 --> 01:29:44,159 then it's like i want to give it out 2469 01:29:48,470 --> 01:29:46,400 there there the answer is i don't like 2470 01:29:49,669 --> 01:29:48,480 giving the answers and that's not what's 2471 01:29:51,430 --> 01:29:49,679 being done in 2472 01:29:54,629 --> 01:29:51,440 you know crossover i think it's been 2473 01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:54,639 learning to ask the right questions or 2474 01:29:58,470 --> 01:29:56,480 not necessarily that are there any right 2475 01:30:00,229 --> 01:29:58,480 questions but ask questions 2476 01:30:02,629 --> 01:30:00,239 and to give them some context within 2477 01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:02,639 which to ask them because the answers 2478 01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:05,199 are going to be different for everybody 2479 01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:07,199 no you know not that one's right and 2480 01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,280 one's wrong but how we perceive things 2481 01:30:13,830 --> 01:30:11,760 how we understand things how things uh 2482 01:30:15,110 --> 01:30:13,840 penetrate um you know 2483 01:30:17,430 --> 01:30:15,120 at whatever level they're gonna 2484 01:30:19,510 --> 01:30:17,440 penetrate at us based on you know where 2485 01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,520 we are and how open we are 2486 01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:21,120 so 2487 01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:22,639 that's what i think is important about 2488 01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:25,199 something like this um to 2489 01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:27,040 you know that's the whole thing i've 2490 01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:28,960 been trying to do is challenge provoke 2491 01:30:33,669 --> 01:30:31,280 and inspire but you really gotta push 2492 01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:33,679 somebody into an uncomfortable place i 2493 01:30:37,350 --> 01:30:34,560 think 2494 01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:37,360 to get them to be like you know hey but 2495 01:30:41,750 --> 01:30:39,840 but never push on them and answer just 2496 01:30:44,070 --> 01:30:41,760 say man just take a look you've got to 2497 01:30:45,830 --> 01:30:44,080 ask questions especially now i mean how 2498 01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:45,840 the hell do you know you if you watch 2499 01:30:50,149 --> 01:30:48,480 fox news in msnbc you're living on two 2500 01:30:51,669 --> 01:30:50,159 different planets you know it's just 2501 01:30:53,750 --> 01:30:51,679 like in the markets the financial 2502 01:30:55,030 --> 01:30:53,760 markets you got the guy from goldman 2503 01:30:56,550 --> 01:30:55,040 saying this is the greatest buying 2504 01:30:58,709 --> 01:30:56,560 opportunity of all time and then you got 2505 01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:58,719 a guy over at jp morgan saying that you 2506 01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:00,480 know these markets are going to crash 2507 01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:04,000 these are both you know nba phd's top of 2508 01:31:07,510 --> 01:31:06,159 their field how the what are they 2509 01:31:09,750 --> 01:31:07,520 looking at they're looking at the same 2510 01:31:11,350 --> 01:31:09,760 numbers for the most part you know so 2511 01:31:13,430 --> 01:31:11,360 that's it you've got to ask questions 2512 01:31:15,270 --> 01:31:13,440 you can't follow this guy or that guy 2513 01:31:17,270 --> 01:31:15,280 because you know because one of these 2514 01:31:19,590 --> 01:31:17,280 guys is going over the left you know but 2515 01:31:21,830 --> 01:31:19,600 he's incredibly confident you have to be 2516 01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:21,840 open you have to be flexible pliable you 2517 01:31:26,550 --> 01:31:24,000 got to ask a lot of questions 2518 01:31:28,470 --> 01:31:26,560 and then just be willing to to be 2519 01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:28,480 i think you have to be willing to look 2520 01:31:32,310 --> 01:31:30,719 stupid sometimes you know that's not 2521 01:31:34,310 --> 01:31:32,320 easy to do and you have to learn how to 2522 01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:34,320 be okay with getting your head handed to 2523 01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:36,080 you whether it's in the markets i 2524 01:31:39,750 --> 01:31:38,159 started up a jazz club once and i got my 2525 01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:39,760 head handed to me it was a really cool 2526 01:31:43,590 --> 01:31:41,840 jazz club and the whole thing and 2527 01:31:45,189 --> 01:31:43,600 but i didn't realize i didn't i couldn't 2528 01:31:47,590 --> 01:31:45,199 handle being around that many people 2529 01:31:49,189 --> 01:31:47,600 that wanted to like talk to me crowds so 2530 01:31:50,950 --> 01:31:49,199 the place collapsed and it was like 2531 01:31:53,669 --> 01:31:50,960 embarrassing because i'd always had 2532 01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:53,679 success in business but it's like man i 2533 01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:56,000 learned more from that you know we learn 2534 01:31:59,830 --> 01:31:57,440 more from our failures from our 2535 01:32:01,669 --> 01:31:59,840 successes there's no question so the 2536 01:32:04,550 --> 01:32:01,679 whole thing is just ask questions be 2537 01:32:05,990 --> 01:32:04,560 willing to take risks not stupid risks 2538 01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,000 but you know what you might consider a 2539 01:32:10,629 --> 01:32:08,400 risk you know the downside is 2540 01:32:12,470 --> 01:32:10,639 can be will be pure upside whatever 2541 01:32:14,070 --> 01:32:12,480 happens one way or the other but you 2542 01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:14,080 gotta you know you gotta put throw 2543 01:32:17,990 --> 01:32:16,080 yourself into the deep end you know you 2544 01:32:19,750 --> 01:32:18,000 cannot if you sit in the in the surf 2545 01:32:22,229 --> 01:32:19,760 you're gonna get this [\h__\h] kicked out of 2546 01:32:24,310 --> 01:32:22,239 you you gotta go into the deep end and 2547 01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:24,320 just you know 2548 01:32:27,669 --> 01:32:25,679 richard vore had a great saying i 2549 01:32:29,350 --> 01:32:27,679 actually just finished uh another book i 2550 01:32:31,510 --> 01:32:29,360 had to do the book at the same time as 2551 01:32:34,070 --> 01:32:31,520 this one because the research was 2552 01:32:36,070 --> 01:32:34,080 driving me insane it was so 2553 01:32:37,990 --> 01:32:36,080 dry it was so um 2554 01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:38,000 it just got monotonous because you're 2555 01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:40,080 just going no so i started writing a 2556 01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:42,400 book and and my son sean had asked me 2557 01:32:45,189 --> 01:32:44,000 that he i'd written something and he's 2558 01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:45,199 like man you got to turn this into the 2559 01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:47,280 book but the end of the book uh there's 2560 01:32:51,590 --> 01:32:49,120 this great saying it's from richard he 2561 01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:51,600 was in one of my films and 2562 01:32:55,510 --> 01:32:53,679 was based on a poem 2563 01:32:57,669 --> 01:32:55,520 but he said that 2564 01:32:59,990 --> 01:32:57,679 basically the metaphor was you have to 2565 01:33:02,390 --> 01:33:00,000 learn to breathe underwater and that's 2566 01:33:05,590 --> 01:33:02,400 why you have to jump into the deep end 2567 01:33:08,310 --> 01:33:05,600 you have to just let go and just give 2568 01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:08,320 your body as a coral castle and learn 2569 01:33:12,390 --> 01:33:10,239 how to breathe underwater and i think 2570 01:33:13,189 --> 01:33:12,400 that's kind of what it is because you 2571 01:33:15,270 --> 01:33:13,199 just 2572 01:33:18,070 --> 01:33:15,280 you know you gotta ask questions you 2573 01:33:20,149 --> 01:33:18,080 just gotta let go i have a hard time 2574 01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:20,159 a little bit easier now but man that's 2575 01:33:26,470 --> 01:33:23,120 not easy for for a skeptic's 2576 01:33:28,310 --> 01:33:26,480 it's your best and worst enemy you know 2577 01:33:30,229 --> 01:33:28,320 but i think it's 2578 01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:30,239 you have to have that the yin and yang 2579 01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:31,920 you know it's the struggle if you don't 2580 01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:33,840 struggle with your own self you know 2581 01:33:37,350 --> 01:33:35,520 you're you're asleep 2582 01:33:39,189 --> 01:33:37,360 you know and you can't be asleep anymore 2583 01:33:40,470 --> 01:33:39,199 in this stage you know 2584 01:33:43,189 --> 01:33:40,480 you can't 2585 01:33:45,030 --> 01:33:43,199 so anyway that's my theory 2586 01:33:47,590 --> 01:33:45,040 awesome man that's a great way to end it 2587 01:33:48,870 --> 01:33:47,600 so dj where do you plan on going with 2588 01:33:50,709 --> 01:33:48,880 this uh 2589 01:33:53,350 --> 01:33:50,719 the crossover experience you have a new 2590 01:33:55,430 --> 01:33:53,360 book out where are your projects taking 2591 01:33:57,350 --> 01:33:55,440 you in the future 2592 01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:57,360 i don't know that i can do another book 2593 01:34:03,110 --> 01:34:00,000 these these are really hard you know i 2594 01:34:05,110 --> 01:34:03,120 found film work easier 2595 01:34:06,870 --> 01:34:05,120 but i don't feel like film right now and 2596 01:34:09,030 --> 01:34:06,880 and i i think one of the things i need 2597 01:34:11,590 --> 01:34:09,040 to do because it's been a really 2598 01:34:14,790 --> 01:34:11,600 difficult kind of two years 2599 01:34:17,030 --> 01:34:14,800 and just now as i've launched it um 2600 01:34:18,870 --> 01:34:17,040 i started to listen to jazz again you 2601 01:34:20,629 --> 01:34:18,880 know my wife comes home she goes oh my 2602 01:34:22,229 --> 01:34:20,639 god i'm so happy to hear you no she 2603 01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:22,239 doesn't love the music but she's like 2604 01:34:24,790 --> 01:34:23,280 you know 2605 01:34:26,629 --> 01:34:24,800 and it 2606 01:34:29,189 --> 01:34:26,639 something about music but especially 2607 01:34:31,110 --> 01:34:29,199 jazz i grew up on jazz um which none of 2608 01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:31,120 my friends listened to or liked i don't 2609 01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:32,880 know anything like rock and roll 2610 01:34:37,030 --> 01:34:34,400 but so i'm i'm looking at opening 2611 01:34:39,110 --> 01:34:37,040 another jazz club so that puts you know 2612 01:34:42,070 --> 01:34:39,120 that's a typical dj move 2613 01:34:44,229 --> 01:34:42,080 you know i i mean i i don't know i i 2614 01:34:46,950 --> 01:34:44,239 also have i want i'm going to go down to 2615 01:34:49,109 --> 01:34:46,960 perugian i think and and kind of do that 2616 01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:49,119 scene and years ago i went out to the 2617 01:34:53,350 --> 01:34:51,520 desert kind of sit on a rock for you 2618 01:34:55,109 --> 01:34:53,360 know i was going to do 40 days and 40 2619 01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:55,119 nights and i got physically got the [\h__\h] 2620 01:34:59,430 --> 01:34:57,280 kicked out of me it was like like a 2621 01:35:01,750 --> 01:34:59,440 crazy desert in the united states so 2622 01:35:05,030 --> 01:35:01,760 i've always got something but you know i 2623 01:35:08,070 --> 01:35:05,040 think i might go into where i where i my 2624 01:35:10,229 --> 01:35:08,080 greatest waterloo i call it was was my 2625 01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:10,239 jazz club it was an amazing club but i 2626 01:35:14,870 --> 01:35:12,080 couldn't handle being there i always say 2627 01:35:16,229 --> 01:35:14,880 i love building it but i never um i 2628 01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:16,239 never 2629 01:35:20,229 --> 01:35:18,560 accounted for the fact that human beings 2630 01:35:21,350 --> 01:35:20,239 were going to come in in in large 2631 01:35:23,910 --> 01:35:21,360 numbers 2632 01:35:25,590 --> 01:35:23,920 and as soon as they did i literally my 2633 01:35:27,270 --> 01:35:25,600 friend said dude you're crazy they'll 2634 01:35:29,030 --> 01:35:27,280 think you're crazy close it right now 2635 01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:29,040 and i almost did like literally the week 2636 01:35:33,510 --> 01:35:31,280 it opened so i just like can't do this 2637 01:35:35,350 --> 01:35:33,520 man but i didn't that was a mistake so 2638 01:35:37,109 --> 01:35:35,360 now i'm thinking going back to my 2639 01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:37,119 waterloo and you know giving it another 2640 01:35:41,109 --> 01:35:38,800 shot i missed the music you know i 2641 01:35:42,709 --> 01:35:41,119 really missed that so 2642 01:35:44,790 --> 01:35:42,719 but i don't know about another book i'll 2643 01:35:47,109 --> 01:35:44,800 send you the one that i'm finishing it's 2644 01:35:49,350 --> 01:35:47,119 actually it's called punching waves um 2645 01:35:51,669 --> 01:35:49,360 because you know if you read it you know 2646 01:35:53,590 --> 01:35:51,679 the life has been kind of crazy but that 2647 01:35:55,510 --> 01:35:53,600 was good very cathartic but i think now 2648 01:35:57,350 --> 01:35:55,520 it's time to listen to some jazz and 2649 01:35:59,189 --> 01:35:57,360 relax a little bit 2650 01:36:01,910 --> 01:35:59,199 dj i really hope people check out the 2651 01:36:03,910 --> 01:36:01,920 book again the crossover experience it's 2652 01:36:06,550 --> 01:36:03,920 been great having you on skeptico thanks 2653 01:36:08,790 --> 01:36:06,560 for joining me thank you so much and one 2654 01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:08,800 thing i want to do uh is really thank 2655 01:36:14,229 --> 01:36:11,760 jeffrey long at nderf 2656 01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:14,239 anybody that wants to really learn about 2657 01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:15,360 you know really 2658 01:36:18,229 --> 01:36:16,880 go through these you know you don't have 2659 01:36:20,390 --> 01:36:18,239 to go through thousands of them but you 2660 01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:20,400 can really search through them and get 2661 01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:21,920 such a great sense of what's happening 2662 01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:24,880 there and and if they want to 2663 01:36:29,590 --> 01:36:27,600 the crossover website i've created that 2664 01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:29,600 as kind of a hub where you'll find 2665 01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:32,400 research reports scientific reports i 2666 01:36:37,590 --> 01:36:34,400 have playlists of what i would consider 2667 01:36:40,709 --> 01:36:37,600 some of the top testimonials links to 2668 01:36:43,990 --> 01:36:40,719 iands all of the different nderf sites 2669 01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:44,000 so it really focuses on just mdes but 2670 01:36:49,430 --> 01:36:47,199 that's at crossover experience.com 2671 01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:49,440 and and for whoever buys the book which 2672 01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:52,159 is also interesting if it's the ebook at 2673 01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,920 the back where the where the notes are 2674 01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:56,080 the bibliography those are all live 2675 01:37:00,870 --> 01:36:59,040 links directly to the testimonials that 2676 01:37:02,950 --> 01:37:00,880 what i pulled out of the testimonials 2677 01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:02,960 came from so you can go directly to all 2678 01:37:06,870 --> 01:37:05,280 the testimonials i worked with 2679 01:37:10,470 --> 01:37:06,880 so that's just you know something that 2680 01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:12,709 thanks again to dj kadasian for joining 2681 01:37:18,390 --> 01:37:15,840 me today on skeptico the one question i 2682 01:37:21,189 --> 01:37:18,400 t up from this interview is how do you 2683 01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:21,199 find clarity in these biggest most 2684 01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:23,760 important questions about 2685 01:37:28,870 --> 01:37:26,159 how to live your life 2686 01:37:30,390 --> 01:37:28,880 how do you choose let me know love to 2687 01:37:32,310 --> 01:37:30,400 hear from you 2688 01:37:33,430 --> 01:37:32,320 lots more to come on skeptico stick 2689 01:37:35,910 --> 01:37:33,440 around 2690 01:37:38,140 --> 01:37:35,920 until next time take care